DON'T MISS OUT! SIGN UP FOR OUR MAILING LIST

Marcia Posner Williams: 11 Tales from The Golden Girls and Beyond

Melissa Roth: Weirding Way Media  

Amy Englehardt [Singing]: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Susan Lambert Hatem: Welcome back to part two of our interview with Marcia Posner Williams. If you want to start with part one, go back to the previous episode and take a listen. Or you can start right here, because every story is amazing. All right. So they meet your conditions.

Marsha Posner Williams: Right. And so I came back. Hail to the Chief was just like Soap. Tons and tons of characters, continuing story, seven of the funniest episodes I've ever worked on.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So, 1985, also created by Susan Harris, Patty Duke. Ted Bessel. Quinn Cummings.

Marsha Posner Williams: Correct. Murray Hamilton.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And it's the soap at the White House with a female president.

Marsha Posner Williams: Correct.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And she becomes president, sort of, because the VP. I mean, the president--  

Marsha Posner Williams: I don't even remember how. She wasn't important. It was just that she was the president. Her husband was a philanderer. But I will tell you, when we went to shoot the first episode, the executive in charge of production named Harry, he came into me right before we were going to shoot it, and he said, we've got a problem. We got a problem. We're going to start shooting like half an hour, and there are like six or eight nuns in full habits sitting in the front row or the front of the audience. You got to go tell them that they probably want to leave. I said, mm, mm, not my job. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. So he had to go talk to them and say, we're not sure that you know exactly what this show is, and we want to give you a chance to leave now before you are just embarrassed. And, you know. Anyway, they left, and the first scene of the show took place in, like, the Lincoln Bedroom, something like that. And it opens up and you see the bed, and there's obviously somebody under the covers. Bodies rolling around, right? And then a guy pops his head up, who was a young Latino guy, all disheveled. And then Quinn Cummings playing the daughter, she pops up and she's completely disheveled. And he says, so, how was it? And she says, well, it was everything I’d hoped it would be. It was everything I had dreamed it would be, only faster. That's how it started. So it's a good thing they weren't there. And we went off from there.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm kind of thinking one of those nuns snuck back in, but it took up the habit and snuck back in. But that's it.

Sharon Johnson: Marcia, did they want you to talk to the nuns because you were a woman and they thought it might come and they just didn't want to deal with it or?

Marsha Posner Williams: They wanted me to deal with it. I said, no, I'm a Jew. I'm not going to deal with it. No, no, no, no. I don't know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And, so was there any controversy around Hail to the Chief?

Marsha Posner Williams: No, no, not the. Not that I recall. Ted was a philanderer, as I said, but it wasn't as bad, quote, unquote, as Soap.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Do you know the story of how that show came about? ‘Cause I'm fascinated because it was female driven. Patty Duke and the president. Female president, maybe the--

Marsha Posner Williams: That would never happen.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. Clearly still not ready for that.

Marsha Posner Williams: Don't blame me. I voted for her. So, yeah, yeah. No, I don't. Because I was doing Night Court at the time, so I wasn't privy to that.

Sharon Johnson: How did it feel working on a show with Ted Bessel since That Girl was so important to you when you were growing up? How was that?

Marsha Posner Williams: It was wonderful. I mean, full circle, right? It was absolutely joyful. I loved the whole cast. Who was it that played the dual role? I'll think of it later. He was in It’s A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. And he was so funny in that show. Remember that movie? It was so great. And he played the mother, he played the son of, ‘I'm coming, Mama. I'm coming, Mama.’ I highly recommend you watch that show. That movie.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That movie is very funny. Iconic.

Marsha Posner Williams: That movie is iconic. Iconic.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. Richard quotes that movie. My husband quotes that movie a lot.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah? Yeah, it's funny.

Sharon Johnson: I remember the big W. That's the thing for me that always.

Marsha Posner Williams: And guess what? That W I'm gonna see next month because it's on the island of Kauai at the Waiohei. And they have a big W in Pontchos.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. I'm going to Oahu next month.

Marsha Posner Williams: Okay. You'll see a big ‘O.’ Oh, okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Herschel Bernardi.

Marsha Posner Williams: Herschel Bernardi. And no. But then, I can see his face. He died in real life. He died doing his one-man show on stage.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh.

Marsha Posner Williams: Who else is in the cast?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Dick Shawn.

Marsha Posner Williams: Dick Shawn.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Dick Shawn.

Marsha Posner Williams: That's it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: That's it. Yeah. Yeah. He was amazing. So insecure. But so amazing. So funny.

Susan Lambert Hatem: A lot of actors are insecure.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. Yes, they are.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So you're wrapping up Hail to the Chief and you're saying it was always intended to just be seven episodes. no.

Marsha Posner Williams: No. Oh, no.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, no. It was supposed to be-- It was supposed to go on.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes, but it was extremely-- ABC billed, advertised that show as the show that would offend everybody. Seven of the funniest episodes I've ever seen. And there were a lot of controversial things in it, but hilarious. I mean, you know, if we just stopped taking each other so seriously, this could be really funny. So anyway, but it was while I was doing Hail to the Chief, when they started casting The Golden Girls. So that's how that transition happened.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: Hail to the Chief went down and immediately The Golden Girls was in my lap. So that's how that happened.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And did you have any conditions for going on The Golden Girls?

Marsha Posner Williams: No. One of the five conditions was, I'm not coming back to do seven episodes, because I could do 22 with Night Court. So pay me for 52 weeks even if everything gets canceled or I'm not interested. So fortunately for them, one show led right into the next.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, they had enough shows going. You gotta keep all their shows going. So Golden Girls.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes, I've heard of it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: When did you come on to Golden Girls then?

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, we did the reshoot of the pilot without Coco.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, all right, so can you talk about that? So they shoot a pilot with Coco, then they realize that Estelle Getty basically is gonna become a more--

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah, she was supposed to be just a guest star. Right? And she was so strong that Jay Sandrich and they all just agreed, better with just the four of them. They don't need the fifth guy. I've never felt sorry for an actor in my life. But that guy. ‘Cause it wasn't his fault.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, he didn't do anything wrong.

Marsha Posner Williams: He didn't do anything wrong. And I've seen. I've done pilots with actors who got fired after day three as the lead. I mean, that's terrible. But that's because they weren't good enough. I mean, remember when you cast somebody, you could cast them right here in this office and you think they're fabulous, but when you put them on a 14,000-foot-- Square foot stage with four cameras in their face, they may turn into this whole other person and be scared or whatever, and it doesn't work. And you never see the person you saw here on that stage. And, I've seen that happen a few times.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But he did a great job.  

Marsha Posner Williams: Charles Levin.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Charles Levin, yes, thank you. playing Coco, the gay housekeeper. Houseboy.

Marsha Posner Williams: Houseboy. Yeah, it, wasn't his fault.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. Because they basically were just like, oh no, we can. There's rumor that he was even added because they were a little worried about an all-female show.

Marsha Posner Williams: Don't know that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: I wasn't there for that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You weren't there for that? You weren't there for that?

Marsha Posner Williams: No.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I also found out-- We just covered Facts of Life. And I didn't realize Facts of Life was moved to Saturday night and became the lead-in for the opening of The Golden Girls.  

Marsha Posner Williams: Really? And do you know about the actual opening of this show? The main title opening of the show?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I heard that you might have had something to do with it. The iconic theme song. I do want to ask you about Cindy Yee.  

Marsha Posner Williams: Cindy Fee.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Cindy Fee. So I would love to know about the theme song and the opening credit.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. So I was there when she sang the song. I was in the studio. She did it in one take and after one take she said, okay, you got it. And Tony said, no, no, you gotta do it again. We need at least two. I mean, I understand that you always— ‘Cause you never know, right? You have to have at least two. But she did it in one take. And good for her because she put her children through college on that one song. Right? Good, for her. So we were about four episodes in, but not on the air yet. And Tony said to me one day, you know, we've been taking these meetings with main-title companies who, pitching all kinds of things, flying the ladies to Miami and blah blah, blah, blah blah, all this. He said, and 25,000, 30,000, 40,000 to do a main title for. He said nothing's tweaking our propellers, you know, nothing at all. And I said, well, we know what the song is, obviously. Let me take the raw footage of four episodes and go into an edit bay for a day and let me just screw around with it. He said, Yeah, go, go, go. You know, I'm not an editor, but I know music and I know-- And I like picking clips ‘cause I did it on Soap all the time. And frame for frame, what I came out with has been on the air for 40 years at a cost of about 2,500 bucks.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Did you get to pocket the rest of it?

Marsha Posner Williams: I wish, I wish.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is amazing. That is. And because you know television by this point, you knew what you were doing.

Marsha Posner Williams: But also remember, and Tony was very right about this. A main title doesn't sell a show. And especially nowadays you watch it once and then it's skip intro, skip intro, skip intro. Right? But that is the only thing that gets me truly emotional about that show. If I see that main title, I think about all that went into it and the story behind it is remarkable.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is remarkable.

Sharon Johnson: I was going to ask, do you know how they picked the song or how that song-- Because I believe it was a hit song before or did it become a hit song afterwards?

Marsha Posner Williams: It was his hit song before, what's his name recorded it that I. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know it if you told me, but I don't recall right now.

Sharon Johnson: It's not Harry Nielsen, is it?

Marsha Posner Williams: No.

Sharon Johnson: Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: No. And I have to tell you a funny aside story. A couple years ago, my husband and I went to Chicago because you know what the Second City is, right? Okay. Well, I was their guest speaker, and it was a really phenomenal experience for me to be able to do that. And we said, oh, we're going to go to Chicago. Let's see if the Cubbies are playing, Chicago Cubs. So they were. We got great seats and we're sitting there before the game started and talking to a couple guys sitting to the left of my husband, who's sitting to the left of me. Okay. And they're playing music over the speakers. And all of a sudden what starts to play, not the Cindy Fee version, but the song Thank You For Being a Friend. And my husband turns to these two guys and says, do you know what that song is? And the guy said, oh, yeah, that's a theme from The Golden Girls. And my husband points to me and says, my wife produced the first three seasons of The Golden Girls. And a guy's eyes, one popped out of his head and he leaned across my husband and said to me, you know you're a gay icon, right? And I said, yes. And I wear the title proudly. Is that funny?

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is.

Marsha Posner Williams: It wasn't even the Cindy Fee. It was-- No, not even words. It was just the melody was playing. Isn't that funny?

Susan Lambert Hatem: and it was written, and recorded by Andrew Gold.

Marsha Posner Williams: That's right. Andrew Gold.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Andrew Gold. That is amazing. That song is amazing. That opening credit sequence. And as a person who grew up in the 80s, the opening credit sequence were important because they carry a lot of resonance now. Right? And I think Sharon and I talk about missing them a little bit. Like, I like that the Game of Thrones had an opening credit sequence and music that became iconic to it. I kind of missed them and I definitely missed the songs. So that's one of the reasons I wanted to have her on. I'm very excited about those songs and those songwriters and song singers.

Marsha Posner Williams: Great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Cool. All right, so you're coming on Golden Girls. You fixed the opening credits. You saved them $22,000. It sounds like this was a hit almost from the first taping. Like you knew it was resonating with audiences.

Marsha Posner Williams: It was, it was. There was nothing like it on TV. And as soon as it hit the airwaves, you know, you never know. It doesn't matter what the ratings are in the first week. Does not matter. Right? Because everyone tunes in to see what it is. Week three is what tells you if the show's gonna be a hit or not. Okay. Make sense?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Marsha Posner Williams: So we knew by the end of the third, fourth week that something crazy was happening because there was a lot of press starting to happen. The ladies were so iconic. The three especially, you know. Estelle came from just off of Broadway, so nobody really knew her. But I said to Estelle, don't you-- Because the other ladies were getting more publicity than her. And she voiced it to me one day. I said, Estelle, be patient. You just wait. It's all gonna happen for you, I guarantee it. Just be patient. And that's what happened.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, that's. I mean, she became as iconic as the other three, who had been on television for--

Marsha Posner Williams: Forever.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Forever.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. And to this day, people still don't know that she was the second youngest of them all. Seems funny.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The ages and the whole age thing is very insane. Right?

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, we had a $4,000 human hair wig on our head, so that helped a lot.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I hope somebody treated that preciously.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. It was very unfortunate that she passed away of Alzheimer's, and, and we didn't know back in those days, the mid-80s, what was dementia, what was Alzheimer's. But she had a lot of trouble. And it's not a secret, she had a lot of trouble remembering her lines. And her lines were written all over that set. All over that set. Every cupboard, every table, everything had her lines on it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Were they written on her hand?

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. We had to give her that note to wash her hands because when we did the early show-- We taped every show twice. 5:00 clock and 7:30.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And you taped both shows with an audience.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes. And then we'd edit the best of both together. So we had to tell her to wash her hands because she made a gesture and we saw the line written on her hand like, excuse me, that's not gonna work. So, yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That must have been very hard. That's hard when another cast member isn't able to do that. That's hard on the other cast members. It's hard in a sitcom when you're moving so quickly.

Marsha Posner Williams: Right. But by the time I left, we were doing cue cards for her.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And did it cause attention or were people understanding?

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, the ladies were so professional. I mean, we know the controversy between Bea and Betty.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. I do want to ask you about that one.

Marsha Posner Williams: But it was tough because we didn't know what it was. And we'd be at a reading on a Monday. We don't shoot it till Friday. I remember specifically what the line even was. And the table reads were so much fun ‘cause the scripts were so good, especially in those early days. Right? And Estelle just stops the reading and says, I'll never remember that line. And the director says, it's so funny, Estelle. It's not going to change for five days. You know? But that's how difficult it was. It was sad. Yeah. But she was a trooper, boy, and she pulled it off for seven years. Right?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, which is, you know, when you think, coming from the theater, oh, you can memorize anything, but you're not doing different shows.

Marsha Posner Williams: That's right. That's why it was so much easier doing theater, the same lines every day. Every day for months and years.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Lock it in years.

Marsha Posner Williams: Exactly. Sure.

Melissa Roth: Can I ask a question about the wig?

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes.

Melissa Roth: Do you remember, did Jose Norman do the wig?

Marsha Posner Williams: I have no clue. That's all the hairdresser. Ask Joyce Melton. Yeah.

Melissa Roth: Oh, Joyce was your-- Okay, so it wasn't Jose.

Marsha Posner Williams: I just.

Susan Lambert Hatem: When I did.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. Joyce Melton was the head hairdresser.  

Melissa Roth: Thank you.  

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes. And Soap, too.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. And then, so it was-- There is-- It is sort of famous that Bea Arthur did not really like Betty White.

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, let me put it to you this way. Those two couldn't warm up to each other if they were cremated together. Does that kind of tell it to you in a sentence?

Susan Lambert Hatem: And was it just the personality? Could it have been resolved?

Marsha Posner Williams: No.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: I don't think so. But remember, they were so professional that the second that red light went on, they were the consummate professionals. Bea came from the theater. Bea was a theatrical actress, despite all the success she had on TV, which we know was a lot. Right? Bea, don't forget, was a Marine. She drove trucks in the Marines. And she was a tough broad. Right? So when we would do in front of an audience, we would shoot a scene and then. Okay, moving on. And they would go to do a wardrobe change or just move to the next set, Betty would sometimes break character and go talk to the audience. And Bea hated that. Hated that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Because theater, that's not allowed.

Marsha Posner Williams: You don't do that. It breaks the rhythm to her. You know, it's kind of. Okay, I get that. I get that. But again, they, I'll tell you, my husband shot some very iconic pictures of the ladies. And I don't know if you remember in your research, if you found that the old show This Is Your Life with Ralph Edwards did a surprise to Betty White. Okay? This is your life, Betty White. And when that show contacted us about doing that, we then went to the ladies, except for Betty, of course, to say, will you help us pull off the surprise? And of course, Estelle said, yes, and Ruth said yes. And Bea said, not a chance. Not gonna do it. So the executives went to my husband and said, Wayne, please talk her into it. Make it so it's a photo shoot, something really fast. And you'll be there because she loves you. And so Wayne is the one that got it to happen. And so during this quote unquote, fake photo shoot, all of a sudden, Ralph Edwards walks in, and he has the perfect shot right when Betty was surprised, which I'll show you later.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, my gosh.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right. So he's kind of the Bea whisperer.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes, he is. Yes. Yeah, he's. He even. She actually called the house one day and said, Wayne, I just bought a brand-new BMW and the cassette player doesn't work. I need you to come over to my house. She doesn't live anywhere near us. But he went to her house. He said, okay, Bea, what's the problem? And my husband is a tech genius. Okay. So we sat in their car. She said, okay, here's the cassette. She puts it in. She said, it doesn't play. He said, okay, let's turn the car on. And she gave him the Bea Arthur look. And he said, you know, should I leave now? Yes, get out of my car.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, that look.

Sharon Johnson: That's fantastic.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah, we know that look very well.

Sharon Johnson: How did Rue McClanahan navigate the tension between the other Betty and Bea?

Marsha Posner Williams: Easily. Easily. It was easy, really, because it wasn't terribly blatant. Sometimes it got out of control. The script supervisor could tell you more about that than me because she was on stage the whole seven years with the wonderful ladies. And I hear things secondhand sometimes, but it was fine. It lasted seven years. But it's because Bede said, no way to an eighth year. It was because of that the show did not come back for an eighth year. The other three said, yes, well, let's keep going. And Bea said, no chance.

Susan Lambert Hatem: She was done.

Marsha Posner Williams: And that's when Golden Palace was born, which we know what happened there.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. Now, were you part of Golden Palace?

Marsha Posner Williams: No, I was gone. Because I was gone.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You were gone.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So it's interesting because, I'm wondering if you ever worked with two male actors who kind of didn't like each other.

Marsha Posner Williams: Oh, that's an interesting question. I don't think so.

Susan Lambert Hatem: No? There was never tension on set between two male actors that you were of, shows you were on?

Marsha Posner Williams: No, I don't think so. No.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. Oh, I think she. Did you just think of something?

Marsha Posner Williams: I thought of a great story on the show I did with Danny Thomas called One Big Family, but it wasn't tension, but we had an actor on the show who would throw tantrums once in a while. And what happened on a particular day that-- It's quite the story. It's a great story. You'd have to probably edit it out, but it's a great story.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You better tell us off the air.

Marsha Posner Williams: Because I will. Make a note. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just say One Big Family.

Susan Lambert Hatem: One Big Family.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. Uh-huh. It's a great story. It's a great Marcia story.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Listeners, I have a whole list of things to ask later. I'm sorry we can't include you.

Marsha Posner Williams: That’s right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But I, I. There's so much, I ask that question because it, you know, we hear a lot about, you know, the ladies of the 80s and their relationships, and I sometimes think that women are judged more harshly for their behavior.

Marsha Posner Williams: Uh-huh.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Or them being, quote, unquote, difficult, on set than men are.

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, in front of the camera, behind the camera. I mean, you could ask me, have I ever been a victim of a Me-Too movement experience? And I would say to you, I've never been a victim of anything. I've had those experiences. But you already know me for 10 minutes. You know, I can handle myself. Right?  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.  

Marsha Posner Williams: And I have had those experiences that I would say most women would have not been able to handle the way I did, because I got a mouth on me and a brilliant sense of humor. I think it right when I need it. And so, yeah, that's, stories for off.

Susan Lambert Hatem: For off.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. We're going to have make a note. Right, right, right. Me too. Just write Me too. Because the stories are quite remarkable of these guys who try to pull something off and I stop them in their tracks in the best way. Yes.

Sharon Johnson: It's hard to believe that there haven't been instances across the depth and breadth of Hollywood where male co-stars did not get along. But there doesn't seem to have been the same expectation for them to be, to get along in the same way it is for women. You've got four women on the show. Supposedly they're best friends in real life just as they are on the show, even though they're acting, it's their job to pretend to be best friends on the show. And when men are on shows and they're supposed to be best friends and maybe they get along, maybe they don't, there isn't, doesn't seem to be the same expectation that they're also, you know, fast friends and, and, seeing each other and, you know, running around together as, as friends outside of when they're not working. But just chalk it up to everything else, I guess.

Marsha Posner Williams: Exactly, exactly. How we navigate those things, right?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Do you think it was more difficult for you to rise up in the ranks of producer or break in, and we talked about that a little bit, because you were a woman?

Sharon Johnson: Looks like we have to take a break. We'll be right back. We want to make sure when we're recommending products that it's something we like. And that's exactly what Cozy Earth is all about. They've been on Oprah's favorite things list for years. We're talking about buttery soft bamboo sheets and amazing pajamas. And we can offer you the best discount. 41% off. It's the ultimate in luxury sleep. Go to 80s TV ladies’ My Deals link in the show notes. To see all our ATL deals, use promo code 80sTVladies. That's 8-0-S-T-V-L -A-D-I-E-S.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And we're back.

Marsha Posner Williams: You know, I never ever thought about it that way because I just looked at it as I'm going to do the best I can and what happens, happens. And that's all I focused on was just be really good at what I did with the greatest attitude ever and no negativity ever, unless it was with my door closed to myself with a bottle of booze. You know? But I never thought of it that way. And it was only until those little Me-Too movement things happened that I thought, oh, my goodness, look at these guys thinking they're all that. But they're not. Which made me laugh.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah,  

Marsha Posner Williams: Seriously  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now, did you work on any of The Golden Girls international versions?

Marsha Posner Williams: I was gone.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You were gone. Okay. So you left Golden Girls.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And you went--

Marsha Posner Williams: Let's see. I did a show called-- I started working at-- What show did I do at Paramount with-- Oh, yes, I did Amen.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, yes, yes. With Sherman Hemsley. Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes. I loved Sherman. I loved that cast. But I can tell you. Here we go again. I did the third season of that show. I started at the very beginning of the third season. I was the fifth producer in the job because the executive producer was such a piece of work and had quite the reputation that the girl who had the job two producers before me left with a bleeding ulcer and her hair was falling out. ‘Cause she didn't know how to handle this guy.

Sharon Johnson: Wow.

Marsha Posner Williams: He was the walking reason for twin beds. Okay? But I--

Susan Lambert Hatem: But you found a way.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes, yes. And I will tell you one great story about this guy that we were in a camera blocking run through. Okay? So we're in the booth, the cameras are there, and he used to pace back and forth behind the director. It was terrible that he did that. And I was sitting in the row right behind them. Okay? So you picture that. The front row, he's pacing between us, right? So they're doing the rehearsal. An actor misses a line, flubs a line, and he takes his script and goes, god damn it. And hits me right on my hand. And I yelped, and he never said a word to me. The next day, tape day, the front row is there. Nobody else is there. But the front row is getting ready for rehearsal before the audience comes in. I walk in, they all look at me, and they said, Marcia, please don't do it. He's gonna fire you. Please. We love having you here. Everybody loves you. Please don't do this. He's going to fire you. And I had a pay or play deal, so I didn't care. I mean, you fire me after day one, you gotta pay me for 22 episodes, right? So I said, look, a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do. And I took my place and I sat down, and in he walks. And he comes over and he says to me, what are you doing? And I said, well, yesterday you hit me and you hurt me. So today I'm ready. Take your best shot. And I was sitting there in a full catcher's outfit, and he didn't talk to me the rest of the day, but he didn't fire me. So, girl’s gotta do what a girl's gotta do.

Sharon Johnson: Absolutely.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. He was-- I mean, I saw him, you know, put his fist in the wall, kick a table, chase a runner down the stairs, throwing things out, you know. Yeah. It takes all kinds, right? Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, but, you know, but that behavior, you know, I don't know. Brilliance is no excuse for bad behavior.

Marsha Posner Williams: No, right. And I will tell you that he co-created the Cosby Show. He was making so much money when I was working with him. So much money. But I heard, and I'm pretty sure it's true, that after they shot the pilot of Cosby, Cosby went to NBC and said, either he goes or I go. So the guy had a reputation. I'm not talking out of turn. The guy had-- I was the fifth person? Really? Really?

Susan Lambert Hatem: But you stayed on Amen.

Marsha Posner Williams: Just for a season.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Just for a season. Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. Yeah. I can only take one season. I said, okay. Think of it like a kidney stone. It'll pass. It'll pass every day I'd say that. It'll be painful, but it'll pass. So after 22, I said, I'm out.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now, you worked briefly, at least according to IMDb.  

Marsha Posner Williams: What I do?

Susan Lambert Hatem: On It's a Living.

Marsha Posner Williams: I did the pilot.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You did the pilot?

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. We've talked about It's a Living on this show. We had on—

Marsha Posner Williams: Ann Jillian?  

Susan Lambert Hatem: No, close. We were close. She was going to. Then she said, no. You know, there's a number of women that we get to, and then they get nervous and they start to say, well, I don't know, I don't want to talk. And I think I-- You know, I think that sometimes. Sometimes women have, are more afraid to say to tell their story, and it's just easier to not.

Marsha Posner Williams: I don't have that problem.

Susan Lambert Hatem: No, you do not. I appreciate that so much. We talked to Paul Kreppel because every guy will come on our show.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yes.

Melissa Roth: Paul had no problem.

Susan Lambert Hatem: He's great. He was delightful.

Marsha Posner Williams: And he talked about working with Jay Johnson and winning a Tony on Broadway with that show. Which is an astonishing show that Jay does. Astonishing. I've seen it five times.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams: It's amazing.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I have not seen it, but I did hear about it. How was that? How was that working on the pilot of this show?

Marsha Posner Williams: It was great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Marsha Posner Williams: It was funny. It was fun. No. And, I'm kind of glad I didn't do this series because I was doing other stuff, which I don't remember at this time. But after Amen, then I started working at, that was at Paramount. Then I started working at 20th Century Fox. And I did a lot of stuff there for like seven or eight years before I-- Then I did a pilot for CBS and then I got out.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And what made you decide I'm done?

Marsha Posner Williams: I wasn't having fun anymore. I'd already done close to 400 episodes. And I remember saying to Wayne, look, I know you're an artist and that's a tough life and everything, but we're gonna pay off our house. I'm out. I just wasn't having any fun anymore. So I've been retired for like 22 years.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But it sounds like you've been keeping busy.

Marsha Posner Williams: I'm very busy, yeah. Because I do college lectures and that's the joy of my life, which I know is the thing you were gonna talk about. That's the joy, yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So that's what's giving you joy, is college lectures? And do you talk about different things? Do you have sort of a set thing that you talk about?

Marsha Posner Williams: It's, ah, always the kids who wanna get in the business and because of my story of coming from nothing, right, and all that which you've heard. And they realize what's possible because I'm not preaching from a book. I pull no punches; I swear like a sailor. And I bring my sense of humor, as you know. And inevitably there's one person in every class who says to me, you just changed my life. Because I give them-- I tell them, despite everything, I'm the most encouraging and inspiring and motivating person they've ever met in their life because I went through it. Okay? And the first thing I always ask them is, how many of you have parents who don't want you to get in this business? And half the hands go up, right? And then I tell them how to think about that, what to think about that while I'm swearing along the way. And it changes their life because then they think now it's almost like giving them permission to think a different way.

Susan Lambert Hatem: To have a dream.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dreams have no deadlines. Okay, that's a quote from LL Cool J. I'll give him credit for that. It's a great quote. But again, as I said to you at the beginning, when I say to them, do you want to go through life wondering what if? It's not going to feel very good. So why? And you can't fail ever unless you never try in the first place. If you try and it doesn't work out, that's called it just doesn't work out. Even if it's a relationship, you try it if it doesn't work out, that's not a failure. Take that word out of your life. It just doesn't work out, it just doesn't work out. But you can say, I tried. That's a badge of honor. I tried. That's the way I look at it. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love that. So what has changed your life?

Marsha Posner Williams: What has changed my life?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, which moment was it that made you go?

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, it was when I got the call from MGM and I said, Dad, I've made it. $200 a week plus overtime. My life just changed. That's truly remarkable because it was the start of the trajectory.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: But I wonder if--

Marsha Posner Williams: No doubt.

Sharon Johnson: I wonder if it actually might be the second time you came to LA and you stuck it out for two years before you got that call from MGM. because if you hadn't, if you had called it quits at that point, there would have been no call.

Marsha Posner Williams: Of course. Of course. Yes. That's true. Very true. Those were interesting days for sure. Going to the pawn shop. Oh, my goodness, that was humiliating. But I did it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But you did it.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And you got through.

Marsha Posner Williams: I got through. Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Are you still in touch with people? Who are you still in touch with?

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, I just got a call from Tony Thomas the other day, who I had spoken to once in 40 years, because Disney, and ABC News are going to do a special for the 40th anniversary of the show this year.

Susan Lambert Hatem: For Golden Girls.  

Marsha Posner Williams: Believe it or not.

Sharon Johnson: Wow.

Marsha Posner Williams: Forty--  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Forty years.  

Marsha Posner Williams: Like, how is that possible? I think I'm only 25. It's just, my body thinks I'm a [wolf whistle] idiot. So there it is. You can bleep that out. Like, where did the time go? I just. It's difficult for you--  

Sharon Johnson: As you look back on all the things you've done and all the things you've seen and people you've met, what for you are the highlights of your career and the things you're able to accomplish in your career?

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, everything that I've done in this business, to me, is an accomplishment. Everything. For me, how great is it to get a call from a studio that says so and so producer has requested you? Come on. That's a big deal. And that happened a few times. That was a very big deal for me. Like, oh, I didn't have to go searching for anything. I just got that call. That's really great. Getting married, that's a huge thing to somebody that in this business, to still be married to 41 years later is quite remarkable considering I used to be the queen of the one-night stand back in the day, you know, when the most used word of my vocabulary was next. So what can I say? It was the 70s. Yeah. I consider waking up every day an accomplishment these days. Every day above ground is an accomplishment. You know, it's not our abilities that show who we are. It's our choices that show who we are. Right. So you can be the greatest, writer or the greatest producer, but if you choose to be an asshole, I have no respect for you because you made that choice. Right? So I, I, I just, every, every day is, to me is just an amazing day. And I look back on my career, which I now say is like World War II. It's history. But it's still-- I not only achieved what my original goal was, which was to work in this business, I actually overachieved. How often does that happen? My dad used to say to me, you know, I'm becoming known as your father. Like, how does it get better than that? It doesn't. It doesn't. And my sister was, became a judge at 25. So, you know, we were, we were considering we both lost our mother at an early age, I'm so proud of the two of us for doing what we did in life. It's pretty remarkable. So I'm grateful every day also that I married a man who thinks I'm the funniest person on the planet. So that helps a lot.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That does help, yes.

Sharon Johnson: Is there anything you miss about not working in Hollywood anymore?

Marsha Posner Williams: Not a nanosecond to miss that business.

Susan Lambert Hatem: How does it feel to win an Emmy and Golden Globe?

Marsha Posner Williams: Well, did I just talk about overachieving? Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Do you have one in your house?

Marsha Posner Williams: I have two Emmys in my house.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: And where do they sit?  

Marsha Posner Williams: On the mantle.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They sit on the mantel.

Marsha Posner Williams: Because when I have young people come over and they see the reality of that, and I always say, do you want to take a picture with it? And they always say yes. It gives them a whole new push because now they know what's possible. And when I do college lectures locally, like I only go to-- I would never speak at USC or UCLA because my own story of struggle doesn't appeal, doesn't apply to that. But, for example, I go to Stockton, California. They have a community college there that's about 25,000 strong. Okay? A lot of the kids in the media department come from nothing. And they have the most brilliant, brilliant professor who is the most amazing woman I've ever met in my life. She's originally from Costa Rica. And the way she teaches and the fact of how inclusive and all of that she is of everybody. Well, I've spoken to that class 13 times. At the end, we have a routine. The last thing I say in my lectures, I say, here's the last thing I want to say to you before I go. I'm not going to tell you it's going to be easy, but I will tell you it'll be worth it. And out comes the Emmy. And they all go out of their minds. And then they line up wanting to have a picture taken with it. And I let each one of them hold it, and they feel what. They get energy from it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Because it's got a weight.  

Marsha Posner Williams: Oh, it's very heavy.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They're very heavy.

Marsha Posner Williams: But how, how fantastic is that to see their faces light up with such joy of what's possible. Because that's what I always tell them. Don't let people tell you it's not possible. Don't let somebody who probably gave up on their dreams talk you out of yours. Don't do that. This is your choice. Don't let somebody take your power away from you. Why would you do that? Why? Why? Why? And then they get very empowered by that. It takes that outside voice to tell you something sometimes, right? If your parents are telling you, some of your siblings are telling you best friends, but somebody completely unknown tells you, somebody, boom, a light goes off.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Marsha Posner Williams: It's joyful.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's amazing.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: How did you get started doing lectures, or speaking to students? How did that come about?

Marsha Posner Williams: It started a really long time ago when I was a script supervisor, believe it or not, on Soap. And I went to Chico State and talked to 120 kids. And just. It just started. And what I love telling them, too, is I started as a secretary. Right? As an example, remember I was a script supervisor on Soap, and then I got kicked upstairs. The girl who replaced me as a script supervisor was also the script supervisor when I went to Night Court. And during that year or season on Night Court, she used to say to me, I just want to. I just want to write comedy scripts. And I would encourage her and encourage her. Well, guess what? That young girl went on to become the co-executive producer of Two and a Half Men. Okay? So there's so many stories like that. It's not just me. And I tell them, whether it's a music department-- One of my roommates. Right? Who took me in when I was homeless. He came here from Texas because he wanted to be a singing star. He went on to score every note in music for Saved by the Bell. I mean, it happens when you're good at what you do, it happens.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So committed. That's amazing.

Marsha Posner Williams: Yeah. Commitment.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, well, this has been fantastic.

Marsha Posner Williams: I'm so glad. I've had a good time.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Us, too.

Marsha Posner Williams: We have had a blast.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And, Sharon, it's almost like you were here. Right?

Marsha Posner Williams: It was joyful.

Sharon Johnson: I so wish I was. But, yeah, we can't. We cannot, really cannot thank you enough for sharing your stories with us. It really means a lot. I mean, just, it'll mean a lot to our audience, but my goodness, it means a lot to us, too, to hear.

Marsha Posner Williams: I'm so glad. I'm so glad. But it just. It gives me such joy to be here and to let other people in on how I think and stuff and. Because if it affects one person, yay. Right? Plus, I just love telling the stories, some of which we're not going to tell ‘til we're off.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. You know, don't worry. Sharon and I will get them, and then we won't be able to tell you, listeners.

Marsha Posner Williams: Right, right, right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But we'll enjoy them.

Marsha Posner Williams: Exactly. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, we have to let you go.

Marsha Posner Williams: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But don't worry, we're going to keep talking to her and get all the stories.

Marsha Posner Williams: Thank you, everybody, for listening.

Susan Lambert Hatem: For our audiography today, you can currently watch Golden Girls on Hulu and Disney+, and it's available for purchase on Apple TV and Prime Video.

Sharon Johnson: And for those who are sick of streaming apps moving everything around, the DVDs might be available at your local library. So, do check it out or you can find box sets on DVD at eBay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm recommending this short but very interesting TV milestone series book, The Golden Girls by Kate Brown. And you can check out a book on Soap, the Unauthorized Inside Story of the Sitcom That Broke All the Rules by A.S. Berman. Links will be in our description. Okay, 80s TV ladies, let's talk about night sweats. It's not glamorous, but it's real and it's happening to me. My absolute lifesaver-- Cozy Earth bamboo sheets. They're cooling and moisture wicking so I can finally sleep soundly without overheating and wetting up everything. They are worth the hype. Visit cozyearth.com and use our exclusive 80s TV ladies, 41% off code. 41%. And that code is 80sTVladies.

Sharon Johnson: So, listeners, as we've mentioned before, we really appreciate your feedback. So if you like our show, please make sure to leave us a rating and a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify or whatever platform you use. Our website is 80stvladies.com. We'd love to hear from you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: We are coming up on our 100th episode of 80s TV Ladies. I can't believe it. Sharon and Melissa, what should we do to celebrate?

Melissa Roth: I think we definitely need to pop some champagne.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, maybe a big cake. A big cake! I like that. What else?

Sharon Johnson: Well, what about you? What do you think we should do?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I would love to do-- I was thinking that we might do a crazy Love Boat cruise episode where we just pretend we're on the Love Boat and have and talk about something. Our hundredth episode. I don't know. I haven't figured it out.

Sharon Johnson: Well, listeners, if you have any ideas, we would love to hear them. So send us a message at, 80sTVladies@gmail.com or through our website, 80sTVladies.com.

Melissa Roth: How should we celebrate 100 episodes? Let us know.

Sharon Johnson: And as always, when we travel down this road and back again, we hope 80s TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch. All of which will bring us closer to being amazing ladies of the 21st century.

Amy Englehardt [Singing]: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

‍