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SEASON 4, EPISODE 2 | BATTLE OF THE ICONS: XENA VS BUFFY SHOWDOWN

Melissa Roth: Weirding Way Media.

Amy Englehardt [Singing]: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Melissa Roth:  Welcome to 80s TV Ladies! Season four, episode one. We hope you’re settling into a splendid September. And speaking of splendid, here are your hosts Sharon Johnson and Susan Lambert Hatem.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Hello, I'm Susan.

Sharon Johnson: And I'm Sharon. We're back and better than ever, as the saying goes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's right, Sharon. After an excellent summer of joy, travel and resistance, I hope we're all ready for, well, more of the same and also some all new 80s TV Ladies episodes.

Sharon Johnson: In preparation for our first super cool guest of the season, RJ Stewart, the co-creator of Xena: Warrior Princess.

Susan Lambert Hatem: We wanted to have a little fun and you know, prime the pump because honestly, the minute we said Xena, my brain immediately went to Buffy because they're two sides for me of the same glorious 90s TV coin.

Sharon Johnson: I can see that. And it got us wondering who would win.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Ah, ah yes. Who would win? The ultimate question of Buffy vs Xena. Before we get to the battle of the centuries, let's set the stage with a little history on our two titans of superpowered 90s ladies. First out of the gate was Xena.

Sharon Johnson: Xena: Warrior Princess first appeared as a recurring character on Hercules the Legendary Journeys in 1995. She spun off into her own first-run syndication series which premiered September 4, 1995. Ran for six seasons and 134 episodes, then it ended June 18, 2001.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Xena follows the adventures of the formidable antihero, Xena, a ruthless warlord, also named Destroyer of Nations, by the way, who seeks to atone for her dark past, like decimating entire villages, killing thousands and tens of thousands of people. But now she fights for the greater good. In this show, she is joined by her constant companion, the young Gabrielle Abard, who records her adventures.

Sharon Johnson: The series is a blend of ancient mythology, high fantasy, comedy and drama. Part of the first-run syndicated TV shows of the 90s, Hercules, Cleopatra, Robin Hood, Babylon 5, etc, it has two strong female leads.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Lucy Lawless playing Xena and Renee O' Connor playing Gabrielle.

Sharon Johnson: Let's take a quick look at Buffy. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is based on the 1992 Joss Whedon film of the same name that starred Kristy Swanson. The movie and the show follows Buffy Summers, a teenage cheerleader who finds out she has been chosen as the Slayer, a line of young women who are chosen to fight against vampires and demons of the dark. The series is a masterclass in metaphor, using vampire horror as a metaphor for navigating adolescence, Buffy and her Scooby gang friends balance a hectic high school life with saving the world from their small town, which happens to have been built over a hellmouth.

Susan Lambert Hatem: As it happens that, uh, your small town is—Buffy premiered on the WB March 10, 1997. Ran for seven seasons and 144 episodes, ending on May 20, 2003. The last two seasons were on UPN and both WB and UPN are now defunct networks, which is sort of interesting to me. Uh, it starred Sarah Michelle Geller as Buffy Summers, Allison Hannigan as Willow Rosenberg, Nicholas Brennan as Xander Harris.

Sharon Johnson: Anthony Stewart Head as Rupert Giles, Buffy’s stoic and fatherly watcher. David Boreanaz as Angel, bad turned good turned bad vampire. And James Marsters as Spike, better-bad turned good vampire.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Something like that. It was hard to keep track of the vampires and their love affairs with Buffy.

Sharon Johnson: Not to mention the back and forth between the bad, good, bad, good. Who's--

Susan Lambert Hatem: Who, what. What they were in.

Sharon Johnson: Exactly.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But, you know. Anyway, so let's, uh, let's. So between Xena and Buffy, we just wondered who would win in different matchups. First, let's talk about the characters in a, uh, straight up, head-to-head fight. Who would win? Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Xena the Warrior Princess? Sharon.

Sharon Johnson: Well, I think just from a physical standpoint, I'd have to vote Xena. They both have good fighting skills, but Xena is a much more physically imposing person than Buffy, who's very diminutive. Um, so I think from that standpoint, on the surface, it seems to me that it would be Xena.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Right. But Buffy has supernatural strength and fast healing. She is the chosen one, after all. However, she's also a high schooler like you said, or a post high school adolescent. And she really just wants a normal life. Xena wants to be a good warrior. I think the only problem there would be why would Xena have to fight Buffy?

Sharon Johnson: Well, you know, I think we have to, as we go through this, we have to let go of those kinds of questions because otherwise this will just get too complicated. So let's say that for whatever reason, the two of them have to end up in the Thunderdome or something. Who's gonna win? And I think I would have to go with Xena. What about you?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, okay, well, I'm gonna say that yes, Xena has a cool fighting yell, which is advantage there. And her ultimate boomerang weapon, the chakram. Uh, but Buffy has her plucky friends and a stake. So I'm gonna say that's not really gonna help much in a battle against Xena. Um, but I do think it would be a good, fun, epic brawl.

Sharon Johnson: So, as you're looking at this, you're thinking it would be Buffy and company fighting Xena, or would it just be-- I don't know what the female equivalent of mano a mano is. Um, is there—

Susan Lambert Hatem: “Femme a femme.”

Sharon Johnson: There we go.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: “Femme a femme.”

Sharon Johnson: There we go.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes, I think I agree with you. I think-- I was trying to give Buffy a chance. But I really think it's gotta be Xena.

Sharon Johnson: Well, Buffy's—Buffy has her talents. I mean, she's not. She's not without talent. She's not without her tools. Uh, yeah, but I think just in a physical fight, there's only so much you can overcome. So I'd have to go with Xena.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right. And I'm going to have to agree with you as much as I want to pick Buffy because I think it would be fun. But enough about that. Now, which is the best 90s TV Ladies superhero show? Xena? Buffy?

Sharon Johnson: I think this time you should go first.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. All right. Now, one of the problems is this may not be fair because I loved Buffy. Like, that's. We have to sort of give up our biases going in. I loved and watched Buffy from the get go. Um, and then watched Angel, the spinoff, so I'm much more familiar with it. I was in from the beginning of that show. Loved it. Um, though I think it drops off in later seasons, but that's okay. Um, and then Xena I appreciated more from afar during the course of its run. I was in grad school and it was not appointment TV for me. However, that said, I appreciate that Xena took a side character from Hercules and turned her into a huge phenomenon. Like, created a character that feels like she literally existed in Greek mythology somehow. So in that sense, there's something kind of amazing about what they were able to accomplish with Xena that I don't think anyone thought coming out of the gate. So I think you could argue that Xena sort of created more show out of nothing in some ways, to be fair. And then again, Xena is beloved for so many reasons by so many. I would say a lot of 90s TV babies love Xena.

Sharon Johnson: I have to confess here that I don't have as much familiarity with Xena as I did with Buffy. I may have seen a couple of episodes of Xena when it originally aired. And Buffy, because of my formerly stated antipathy for shows about teenagers, I was not interested. And then the fact that it had vampires and demons and scary stuff in it, that was also just a no for me.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You were just out from the beginning.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. It just was never something initially that I had any interest in at all. However, to this day, I have never seen the first three seasons of Buffy. Those are the high school years. The only episodes I've actually seen are the, um, ones from her post high school time. And honestly, I don't remember how or why I started watching it, but I suspect that it may have been because of Brittany. Um, it very well could have, because I know that she loved the show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That makes sense. Yeah, I believe that Brittany could have talked you into it.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. And it may have been, finally, when she was out of high school, I went, okay, fine. I'll start watching some of it. So, as for me, of the which is the better shows, I liked not only the complexity of what Buffy was dealing with. I mean, she's taking on this fight she didn't want. She was never particularly interested in it. It cost her dearly. Um, yet she continued to do it. Um, she enlisted her own little ragtag group of friends and allies to help her. Even turned one enemy into a friend somehow in Spike.

Susan Lambert Hatem: More than one. If you talk about Angel, using her feminine wiles, really.

Sharon Johnson: Well, see, again, I don't have any familiarity with the Angel years, so I. I know it existed, but I can't really speak of it. But I think for me, I'd have to lean towards Buffy again in this instance.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, you know, Sharon, I think I have to agree with you, because Buffy is one of the shows that I loved. Like, it was one of the shows that made me excited to watch TV. I sat down, had my thing. When Rich and I started dating, I was like, well, if it's Thursday night, I will be watching Buffy. So if you want to hang out with me, you can come watch Buffy and Angel. But that's what I'm doing. And so he did. So it worked out. But, uh, so I love this show, and it's my kind of show. Um, I love the humor of Xena. I love the wackiness of it. But I am a sucker for a metaphor show. And the metaphor of navigating adolescence as a horror metaphor is amazing. Like, it's so great. There were so many times where I was like, that is brilliant. We're having this scene that's about, you know, Buffy getting grounded so she can't go out because her mom's grounding her. And her mom's like, yes, I know. At this age, everything seems like life or death. And she's like, yeah. ‘Cause I have to actually save the world tonight, Mom. I got to go to the party. So that. I'm a total, absolute sucker for that. Absolutely. Every time I will pick that kind of show over a warrior show, basically, which I also like. I love those shows.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And there's a lot to love about Xena. But I'm gonna save Buffy, too. So. Okay, now here's a funny one. Best musical episode. Now, both shows famously did a musical episode. Actually, Xena did two, which I didn't know till we started researching this. We've got Xena's the Bittersweet and Liar, Liar, Hearts on Fire versus Buffy's iconic Once More With Feeling.

Sharon Johnson: So you're making me go first on this one, too?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I’m gonna make you go first on this one. You didn't even know there was a musical episode on Xena.

Sharon Johnson: No, I had no clue.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.  

Sharon Johnson: I had no clue. That said, for me, the musical episode for Buffy was without question one of my favorite episodes, if not my favorite episodes. I mean, listen, I'm a sucker for music in a show in general. Um, but the way that it was used in this episode was just remarkable. And having Quentin Battle as basically responsible for all the singing his demons caused all of that and used the music to force these characters to really talk about their feelings, to uncover and expose to the others what they were really thinking and feeling.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Uh. He played Sweet.

Sharon Johnson: Yes. So I just thought it was just a really amazing episode of television just in and of itself. So I gotta go with that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I can't argue too much, though I will make a couple points for Xena here. Is that-- Okay, listen. I was such a sucker for the musical episode. It brought me back to my love of Buffy, where it was sort of waning for me. The show was sort of, I felt, was getting a little bit off track. But that made me stay to the end. I was like, that show just got every piece of goodwill left in the universe in my heart for it when it did the Once More With Feeling. Original music, beautiful choreography. The choreography of the camera in that show, I remember being so brilliant. All of it was just really well crafted.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, yeah. The opening number is absolutely amazing. Going Through the Motions, I think it's called. You know, expressing how she's just. Buffy is just like, you know—

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm not feeling it.  

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. And I'm just trying to, day to day, put one foot in front of the other. But I don't really have any passion for this. The inference that she wishes she just didn't have to do this anymore. The music in particular was everything that I'm just a huge sucker for. And it was just so brilliantly executed and so brilliantly done. And there are still parts of it I think about to this day. Even though I haven't seen the episode for a long time, it still kind of comes back to me.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, I quite literally had a poster in this office for the longest time and I had to change it out because I had to put up one of my posters. Um, but what I do wanna say. ‘Cause I'm always a big sucker for the first and of the 90s superhero ladies, Xena was actually first, which is interesting to me. The first of its two musical episodes, Xena the Bitter Suite. S-U-I-T-E. Very, very clever. Season 3, episode 12 aired February 2, 1998. And even its second episode was before the Buffy episode. ‘Lyre, Lyre and Lyre’ spelled L-Y-R-E. Lots of clever titles for Xena, by the way. Season 5, episode 10, it was actually episode 100 of the show. So I think that's one of the reasons they did a very special episode. It aired January 17, 2000. Whereas Buffy, Once More With Feeling, season 6, episode 7, aired November 6, 2001. So with sheer numbers it would be Xena. With sheer first out of the gate, it would be Xena. Lucy Lawless, no offense to Sarah Michelle Geller, has a beautiful voice. She's quite, quite good. And she's singing that stuff. She's like done performances live. While the Bitter Suite was a lot of fun and very cool and inventive idea at the time. It was surreal. All of Xena is surreal to me. It's uh, like a fever dream. And of the two, I prefer actually Liar, Liar, Hearts on Fire because it was more fun.

Sharon Johnson: Mhm.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It weirdly made more musical sense to me. It was super whacked out. I liked the rap battle and the female-filled cover of Sisters Are Doing It For Themselves. That's all sexy and powerful. But Once More With Feeling is a friggin’ beautiful musical. It is story driven. The songs are all original. It's no contest for me. Yeah, it's Buffy Once More With Feeling.

Sharon Johnson: It packs an emotional punch in a way that took me off guard. I thought it would just be kind of fun and kicky. But you get to the end and it's just like oh my gosh. Wow. Wow.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You've been on a journey.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You've been on an absolute journey, and it just holds up. I have watched it since the original and enjoyed, um, it again. I think, uh, it holds up. So I'm saying Buffy, and you're saying Buffy.

Sharon Johnson: Absolutely.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now, final question. But there's a two-parter. Because, you know, our 80s TV Ladies, you know, we want to keep up with the legacy. Who would the two greatest Wonder Women like best? Let's start with the OG 70s Lynda Carter Wonder Woman. Would she prefer Xena or Buffy?

Sharon Johnson: Well, which one would Lynda Carter prefer? Or which one would--

Susan Lambert Hatem: Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman.

Sharon Johnson: Her Wonder Woman. I think she'd prefer Xena. Only because they are more of the same kind of superhero, if you will. Similar kinds of powers and such. And grown women as opposed to a teenager and then, you know, a young woman just out of high school. I think she would prefer Xena for that reason.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I'm going to say yes to that too, because, uh, Xena is, uh, um, a warrior. They're both warriors. They're from warrior classes.

Sharon Johnson: Cultures.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: And cultures. Yeah. So, uh, you know, she's old school. More old school. And, uh, I think 70s Wonder Woman, Lynda Carter, Wonder Woman would be a little suspicious of Buffy and her ability to. It would be like, okay, that's a child.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Which she was. You know, she'd be encouraging, but from afar, let me put it that way. She would bond. She'd have a drink with Xena.

Sharon Johnson: Wonder Woman and Xena are more contemporaries. Whereas I think that Wonder Woman would see Buffy as maybe a mentee. So, she's not on the same level. Um. But. So for that standpoint, I think she would just prefer Xena over Buffy.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, now the second part of this question is. Okay, Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman from the first movie. I'm only considering the first movie canon in this scenario.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, that's such a good question. Um, I think I'm still gonna stick with Xena, um, for some of the same reasons. The two of them both growing up in warrior cultures, having that mindset. Whereas Buffy was sort of dragged into this. You know, this was just something that was thrust upon her in her adolescence at a time when she's maybe a little vulnerable. And she's like, okay, I guess I'll do this. But I think that, um, Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman, as with Lynda Carter's, probably since they grew up in it from birth, knowing that this was part of what they were, would have embraced it more. So I think her Wonder Woman would also probably lean more towards Xena.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I'm going to disagree with you there, Sharon. I know we've been agreeing so much. This is kind of scandalous. But I think what you said about the reluctant hero is there's more of that in the Wonder Woman. That even though she's a hero, she's also a fish out of water. She's navigating, trying to be both a human and a superhero in a new world. And she's all about fighting for humanity and protecting the innocent. And even though Xena has that, she's more doing it for reasons that are darker. And that Wonder Woman is a lighter Wonder Woman in some ways than the 70s Wonder Woman to me, in that she sort of comes to saving the world more naturally, more innocently. Whereas I think Buffy is sort of in that same role. So I am going to say that Wonder Woman would be more aligned with Buffy.

Sharon Johnson: Interesting. To what degree do you think it might be? Because, uh, uh, my perception is they are certainly the season seven Buffy and the Gal Gadot Wonder Woman are probably closer in age, if you will.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It may be the age thing for sure. And it's also, again, the paths are similar by that point. Because she's come from an innocent path, even though she's from a warrior class. Dropping into the world makes her an innocent in the world.

Sharon Johnson: And that's not the case with Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I don't think so. Because when we meet the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman, she's already in the world. She's already established this is what I'm doing. We don't follow her journey of what am I doing here and what is my responsibility and can I be a normal person and live a normal life and be a superhero? She's sort of finding her superhero strength. Over the course of the first Wonder Woman movie, I would say.

Sharon Johnson: I still come back to the mindset that both of the Wonder Women bring in coming into our world. Um, and I just feel that there would still be more of an affinity with Xena, maybe even with Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman kind of looking to Xena as a role model.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, as a role model. See, I feel like the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman. And I could be wrong. I haven't spent a lot of time rewatching that show yet. She feels more adult the whole time. Whereas I think there is more of a closer in innocence.

Sharon Johnson: Mhm.

Susan Lambert Hatem: With Gal Gadot navigating the new world and the rules of that world and the rules of fighting for good in that world. I think that journey to me would make them very similar, would make her be more aligned and understanding of Buffy than Xena. I think she'd be suspicious of Xena because it's a dark past. But that's just me. So we disagree there.  

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: We agree on 70s Wonder Woman and disagree on, first Wonder Woman movie. And I think it has to do with the reluctant superheroes.

Sharon Johnson: See, I never saw her as reluctant.

Susan Lambert Hatem: In the movie? I did. Not really-- And reluctant may be the wrong word.

Sharon Johnson: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's, it's, um, not in.

Sharon Johnson: Certainly not in the same way that Buffy to me is always the reluctant was always the reluctant—Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Buffy's all reluctant.

Sharon Johnson: She would have been thrilled to just be a teenager and get to live her life and grow up and, you know, not have all this other stuff to deal with.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But the coming into responsibility for the superhero. And I'm a big fan of sort of that reluctant superhero club. We also, like, I don't want to forget our other 90s, uh, TV superhero heroine honorable mentions. We got to give a shout out to Dana Scully from the X-Files. And can you think of another 90s superhero-esq female? I was trying to. There's lots. There's some in animation, but I'm doing live action here.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, I'm not thinking of any off the top of my head from the 90s. There are several ladies in the Star Trek universe.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh yeah, Star Trek. Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: That kind of. Maybe not superheroes, but certainly Major Kira from Deep Space Nine, played by former guest Nana Visitor.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. That was so fun.

Sharon Johnson: Is one of the best female characters. I mean, and she, her character was a, resistance fighter who when peace came, had to kind of—

Susan Lambert Hatem: Rethink her approach to leadership.  

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. And reinvent herself and then as things progress, you know, uh, lean on some of the things she learned growing up in that world of resistance to continue to fight for things she believed in. So she's one of my all-time favorite female characters.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's true. I was kind of thinking of Sidney Bristow from Alias, but I realized that when I went to look up more about that. I always thought of that as a 90s show, but it was really a, uh, 2000 early 2000s show.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So that doesn't really count for 90s. Anyway. But I like that. I like the Nana Visitor.

Sharon Johnson: Mhm.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I think that's cool. Well, but I will say it was a fantastic sort of 90s TV has a lot to show for itself with showcasing strong dynamic women and heroes on television. But let's total this up here. Let's see. In the Xena vs Buffy universe, we have what? The first thing we have is to character, we both chose Xena. So that's two for Xena. Then show to show, we both chose Buffy. Two for Buffy. Melissa, you got to keep track of our math here.

Sharon Johnson: Melissa's thinking. Nobody told me there'd be math.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay,  

Melissa Roth: So it's tied?

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's tied. Two to two.  

Melissa Roth: Two to two.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right. And then for musical episode, we both chose Buffy.

Sharon Johnson: Correct.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So now it's four to two. All right, but then in who would Wonder Woman like best? Lynda Carter Wonder Woman. We were in agreement. Xena-Xena.

Sharon Johnson: Mhm.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then. But Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman, we split. I went Buffy and she went Xena. So what do we got?  

Melissa Roth: Split. It's a split.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: An, um, even split?

Melissa Roth: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Really? Oh, well, that makes sense.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's an even split. We don't know the answer. All right, listeners, what would be the answer for you? Is it Buffy or Xena for all of these questions? But you know, it's a tie. The greatest 90s superhero TV show tied between Xena and Buffy. That is unexpected. That is unexpected. But I like it. We will try to figure out how to put a poll, listeners, and then you guys can let us know. All right, well, we did it. Now we're gonna hear all about Xena in our next episode and all the adventures of RJ Stuart. I cannot wait. It's going to be really fun.

Sharon Johnson: It's a terrific episode. And he was so great and so generous sharing things with us. Just another wonderful guest.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I mean, it was super, super fun. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so stay tuned for that.

Sharon Johnson: Okay, so it's audio-ography time. You can find Buffy the Vampire Slayer in a lot of places. Tubi for free, Disney+ and Hulu, and for sale at the Apple and Amazon sites.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm so hesitant to promote them. I'm mad at them. But if you want the DVDs. Weirdly, there seems to be some controversy over which version is good and which version is bad. There was a reissue of the whole set of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So step carefully, I would say.

Sharon Johnson: When you say good and bad versions, does it mean just quality of the DVD?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Quality of the DVDs.

Sharon Johnson: Oh my gosh. I hadn't heard that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I couldn't really quite find a link.

Sharon Johnson: Mhm.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Uh, some of them are very expensive on eBay. So if you know which is the better version of the DVD or you have an opinion? We have DVDs here. I don't know which ones they are. I don't know if it's even the whole season. I think we just bought them season by season. And Xena Warrior Princess is not on any of the free platforms as far as I know. You can find it on Amazon Prime and for purchase on the various purchase sites. Yeah, I was surprised that there's not more ability to watch that for free.

Sharon Johnson: And speaking of RJ Stewart, he has written a book called Crazy Hawk which we will talk about in our interview. And I must say it's really great. I just zipped through it. Um, I couldn't put it down. So if you want to grab and read it before our interview drops, you can find it at bookshop.org.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I highly recommend the audiobook, which is beautifully read and you can find that at Audible and Spotify. So we'll have some links in there. And, uh, here's a little, uh, trailer for the book that we got from, uh, RJ himself.  

Katie Hagaman [Narrator]: Deirdre lives for one purpose-- to get her sister back. If she has to kill the kidnappers, that won't be a problem. She's good at that. Crazy Hawk by RJ Stewart.

Sharon Johnson: As we come to the end of this episode, just wanted to once again say how much your support means to us. It really does mean the world. Advertising pays very little to us, so to help us pay for the show and make more episodes, please check out patreon.com80sTVLadies and sign up for the tier that best suits your budget.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You can also support us for free by giving us a rating on Apple or Spotify or if there's, whatever you find, if there's a rating system there or just tell a friend about the show, uh, spread the love. And also if you're on Patreon, you're clearly a fan of the show, so thank you very, very much. But if you want some certain thing on Patreon that we can provide without too much trouble, we're happy to provide it to you. So let us know. Also, for our next episode with Mr. RJ Stewart, we will be bringing on a brand new 90s TV Baby, Anna Scheckel, who is very familiar with Xena to help us through the interview because she watched it extensively and adores it and loves it. So she was going to be better at this interview than us and it's going to be so much fun and she's one of our new 90s TV Babies. So we will be excited to welcome her to the show and we will eventually have her on regular 90s TV Babies episode.

Sharon Johnson: So with that, we hope 80s TV ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch. All of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the 21st century.

Amy Englehardt [Singing]: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

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