Episode 112: “Remington Steele Holiday Fun: Deep Dive Into Seasons 2 & 3”

Susan and Sharon take on Season Two and Three of “Remington Steele” as they talk TV tropes, favorite episodes and the introduction of Doris Roberts as fan-favorite Mildred Krebs!
Read Transcript

The Conversation

  • Doris Roberts -- and how she completed the Remington Steele “family”.
  • Everyone Loves Doris: a rundown of (almost) everyone Doris Roberts has ever played “mother” to on the big and small screen.
  • Ms. Roberts senate testimony on ageism in Hollywood.
  • TV TROPES – or, why every detective show in the 80’s went to the circus – in handcuffs!
  • The ever-changing opening title sequences of “Remington Steele”: which one was the best – and which one was the worst…
  • Laura Holt’s suburban sister Frances – was she a sly commentary on rival show “Scarecrow and Mrs. King”?
  • Susan and Sharon’s favorite season 2 & 3 episodes, including “Cast In Steele”, “A Pocketful of Steele” (co-starring 80’s perennial kid actor Meeno Peluce) and “Steele In The Chips”.
  • How the Steele Agency became a three-car family.


Indie rocker and songwriter Michelle Malone helps Susan and Sharon welcome the Holidays with a LIVE PERFORMANCE of a few Christmas songs and talks about her new album, “Michelle Malone and The Hot Toddies!”  https://michellemalone.com/product/806293  


  1.  “Remington Steele” -- Dancer, Prancer, Donner & Steele.  A Christmas office party at The Remington Steele Agency turns into a hostage situation. Die Hard, anyone?
  2. “Scarecrow and Mrs.King” – The Long Christmas Eve. Lee and Amanda end up trapped in a snowbound cabin with an undercover spy, two injured KGB agents – and a bottle of vodka!
  3. “A Different World” – Gift of the Magi.  Whitley gets an unexpected Christmas surprise: her dad’s new girlfriend!
  4. “Cagney & Lacey” – I’ll Be Home For Christmas. An escaped criminal dressed as Santa throws a monkey wrench into everyone’s Christmas Eve plans.
  5. “A Muppet Family Christmas” – the ultimate crossover event: Fraggle Rock, Sesame Street and Muppet characters all gather to celebrate the holidays!  (Featuring Miss Piggy, that ultimate 80’s feminist icon!)
  6. “Christmas at Pee-Wee’s Playhouse” – if you don’t know it, just watch it. So many 80s TV Ladies Guest star: Grace Jones, Oprah Winfrey, Annette Funicello, Joan Rivers, k.d. lang, Charo, Zsa Zsa Gabor… AND Cher!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS from all your friends at 80s TV LADIES!

Our Audio-ography

TVTROPES.org -- https://tvtropes.org

SteeleInLove.com -- http://steeleinlove.com

LauraHoltsCloset.blogspot.com – costumes and products used by Laura Holt

Official Doris Roberts Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/OfficialDorisRoberts


“Are You Hungry, Dear? Life, Laughs and Lasagna” – by Doris Roberts and Danelle Morton - https://amzn.to/3HSWlkg

Help us make more episodes and get ad-free episodes and exclusive content on PATREON.


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80s TV Ladies™ Episode 112 – “Remington Steele Holiday Fun: Deep Dive Into Seasons 2 & 3” Produced by 134 West and Susan Lambert Hatem. Hosted by Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson. Guest: Michelle Malone. Sound Engineer and Editor: Kevin Ducey. Editor: Chris Stachiw. Producers: Melissa Roth. Richard Hatem. Associate Producer: Sergio Perez. Music by Amy Engelhardt. Copyright 2022 134 West, LLC and Susan Lambert. All Rights Reserved.


Michelle Malone  00:00  

(Sings) I love those J i n g l e Bells. Those holiday J i n g l e Bells. I love those J i n g l e, B e double L s. I love those J i n g l e Bells. Jingle Bells jingle all the way.

80s TV Ladies Theme Song  00:22.  

80s TV Ladies, I’m so sexy and so pretty.  80s TV Ladies, I’m steppin out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, I been treated kind of sh#*ty. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Sharon Johnson  00:43

Hello everyone, I'm Sharon Johnson and this is 80s TV Ladies.

Susan Lambert Hatem  00:46

And I'm Susan Lambert. 80s TV Ladies is our podcast where we get to talk about female driven television shows from the 1980s.

Sharon Johnson  00:53

Today we are diving further into Remington Steele.

Susan Lambert Hatem  00:57

If you don't know by now this screwball comedy detective mystery show ran from 1982 to 1987 on NBC. It starred Stephanie Zimbalist as Laura Holt, Pierce Brosnan as the titular Remington Steele and Doris Roberts as Mildred Krebs. And you know what? I tried to say titular, because I thought it would be funny, but I couldn't get it out. But let's go on.

Sharon Johnson  01:18

(Laughs) This detective show follow the cases of a female private investigator who starts her own agency, ends up having to create a fictitious male boss so she can get work because no one will hire a female detective. Suddenly, a mysterious man shows up and assumes the mantle of Remington Steele and they work together to solve mysteries.

Susan Lambert Hatem  01:38

And if you are still confused, go back and listen to our earlier episodes. And you'll hear all more about the show. And hear, you know, I hope you guys already listened to the episodes where we interviewed Stephanie Zimbalist and interviewed one of the writers from the show, Robin Bernheim. Those were amazing interviews. Please check 'em out. We're gonna be talking further about Remington Steele today, taking a look at some of detective show tropes of 80s TV making, including crazy cases, cars, big hair, and Doris Roberts.

Sharon Johnson  02:08

And we'll be looking deeper into the shows, exploring highlights of Seasons Two and Three, asking a lot of questions about Four and Five

Susan Lambert Hatem  02:15

Spoiler alert! We are going to be giving away some story and plot so you are warned. If you haven't watched the show and you care about it. Stop listening. Go watch it and come back.

Sharon Johnson  02:26

Exactly. Especially come back.

Susan Lambert Hatem  02:28

Yeah, definitely come back. But if you don't care, and you're ready to be surprised, there's still lots of enjoyment. We won't spoil everything.

Sharon Johnson  02:34

It is an 80s TV show. So therefore spoilers are really not a big deal, then as they are now.

Susan Lambert Hatem  02:40

That is true. All right.

Susan Lambert Hatem  02:42

Let's do it. I actually want to start with Doris Roberts.

Sharon Johnson  02:42

So let's do it.

Sharon Johnson  02:45


Susan Lambert Hatem  02:45

And I call her a TV trope of the 80s because she was on so many shows in the 80s. And so I think having her on a show is like good luck. She passed away in 2016. She was one of the beloved stars of 80s, 90s, 2000 television.

Sharon Johnson  02:59

Yeah. She she has, she appeared in so many TV shows and memorably in so many TV shows. But is probably best known to most TV viewers today as Marie Barone. The quintessential meddling mother-in-law on Everybody Loves Raymond.

Susan Lambert Hatem  03:19

She won four Emmys for that show alone. She won her first Emmy for Supporting Actress in a Drama in St. Elsewhere in 1983. She would be nominated for, 11 times, including once for Remington Steele. And then of course, won most of them for Everybody Loves Raymond. She was born Doris May Green in St. Louis, raised by her mother and maternal grandparents in the Bronx after her dad left. Later, her mom remarried, and she took her stepfather's name, Chester Roberts.

Sharon Johnson  03:46

She made her Broadway debut in 1955 in Williams Saroyan's The Time of Your Life, playing a hooker in a bar.

Susan Lambert Hatem  03:53

That's a, that's a good role for a lot of ladies between the 50s in the 80s.

Sharon Johnson  03:56

You know it. Again, this this woman did, did a little bit of everything. She began in television on a TV series called Studio One, and then in episodes of The Naked City and The Defenders to bring it all full circle. She started doing films in 1961 with a movie called Something Wild. One of her most notable films was The Taking of Pelham 123, the original version of course. She appears very briefly as the mother of The Rose, played by Bette Midler in 1979s, The Rose.

Susan Lambert Hatem  04:28

One of my favorite movies, actually. Really a pretty amazing movie. An incredible, incredible performance by Bette Midler talking about ladies of 1979. Which I think we can you know, we can loop her into our Venn diagram.

Susan Lambert Hatem  04:43

And what what is amazing is one of the things I remember, I haven't watched the movie in a long time. It makes me want to go back and see it.

Sharon Johnson  04:43


Sharon Johnson  04:49


Susan Lambert Hatem  04:49

She apparently, she's not a lot in The Rose, Doris Roberts. But her presence is felt a lot because basically, you know, The Rose is loosely based on the life of Janis Joplin, and she is spiraling into drugs and the worst parts of chasing fame. And so there's a really incredible scene where she is very high. She's supposed to be at her concert. She's not there, because she's having her own personal demons. And she pulls over and she's drunk and high and she pulls over to a phone booth and she calls her mother. I remember this scene. I don't remember exactly what she said. But basically, she calls her mother kind of for approval, and say, Do you love me?

Sharon Johnson  05:30

mmmm. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem  05:33

I just remember that scene from the movie being very, very strong. Anyway, we have digressed into The Rose but a lot of actresses didn't go back between television and movies in the 80s. But but Doris Roberts managed to do it. Full circle to our show. she did three episodes of Mary Hartman, which was written by Eugenie Ross Lemming, creator of Scarecrow and Mrs. King. And then she also guested on Cagney, & Lacey, a show that I definitely want to cover. So I think she's like a real 80s TV ladies. I mean, like she is all over it.

Sharon Johnson  06:03

Yeah. Absolutely. And perhaps one of the reasons why she was able to go back and forth between film and television is because she was not playing Leads. And for the Lead, they're looking for someone who can bring in box office. Whereas it's, you know, character actors like Doris Roberts that they want someone talented, who can round out the cast and bring some gravitas to whatever role they're playing. And she certainly was capable of that. So.

Susan Lambert Hatem  06:27

Absolutely. And clearly beloved. She wrote a book. And from her book she talked about, basically, you know, she became known as, as you know, playing a lot of mothers. Because she was a great character actress. And so, this is what she says about her character on Everybody Loves Raymond. Marie is one of the world's all time most meddlesome mothers. I know a lot about being a meddlesome mom. Not only have I played that role in my life off screen, I've been cast as the mother of many stars of stage and screen. In fact, I keep a list in my purse of those I've mother, mothered. I love that. The list includes Billy Crystal twice, The Rabbit Test and My Giant. Bette Midler, of course The Rose. Tony Danza in Mamma Mia, Donna Pescow in Angie. Robbie Benson, Marlo Thomas, Charles Groden, Linda Lavin, Chevy Chase, Valerie Harper's mother-in-law, David Spade, and of course, Brad Garrett and Ray Romano. Of all the mothers I portrayed, Marie is the one who has solidified my reputation as the mother of them all. The mother of all mothers, or as they say in Shaft, one bad mother.

Sharon Johnson  07:34


Susan Lambert Hatem  07:35

I love that quote.

Sharon Johnson  07:37

That's fantastic.

Susan Lambert Hatem  07:38

I really like that. And Sharon, we both talked about this. So when we were both researching, and we discovered the Television Academy interview with her. She spoke so passionately in that interview. That's a great interview. She spoke so passionately about ageism, and especially in the entertainment industry, and especially against women. She apparently spoke in front of the US Senate about it, and was a real advocate for women of any age to be able to pursue the careers that they wanted fully and completely.

Sharon Johnson  08:07

And some of that is is kind of part of her story and getting cast, actually, in Remington Steele, if you will. Which we'll be getting to a little bit later.

Susan Lambert Hatem  08:16

Well, we we could get to it now!

Sharon Johnson  08:17

Let's get to it. (laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  08:18

Let's get to it now!

Sharon Johnson  08:20

According to the interview that Susan just mentioned, they asked her about how it came about that she was cast on on Remington Steele. And she and her agent, or through her agent heard about it, and convinced th Producers to see her. She was not the type of actor that they were looking for.

Susan Lambert Hatem  08:38

They were going for like the 35 year old sexy secretary.

Sharon Johnson  08:41

Yeah and she...

Susan Lambert Hatem  08:41

That's what they were looking for.

Sharon Johnson  08:42

In the interview she mentions, she thought that the person that they actually were leaning towards was the Executive Producers wife, I believe.

Susan Lambert Hatem  08:49

Oh, my God. I didn't. Yeah, I missed that part of the interview.

Sharon Johnson  08:51

Yeah, that was, that was very interesting. But Doris walked in the room, and by the time she walked out, it seems like she had the part.

Susan Lambert Hatem  08:58

Killed it.

Sharon Johnson  08:59

Oh, yeah. And she brought so much to the show. They clearly made the right decision in my, in my estimation.

Susan Lambert Hatem  09:06

Oh, absolutely. And Michael Gleason does talk about that. He he, and I think he was a sucker for the funny.

Sharon Johnson  09:11


Susan Lambert Hatem  09:12

And she brought the funny. Like, sh, he was a total sucker for people who could sell comedy in, along with a lot of exposition.(guffaw) And, and so I think that she really kind of knocked their socks off. I mean, he talks about that in the behind the scenes stuff. So I am so glad she really brings a whole other component because she brings sort of she does bring a bit of a mother figure to the show. And instead of being you know, if they put the female secretary in there, it would have inevitably become a little bit of a rival for like it would be like it would have suddenly you'd have to think about the triangle. And, and again, I think trying to do a love triangle in Season two of the show, actually It was complicated. I think this somebody was pushing for it because they kept trying to do it a little bit throughout the five seasons. But I think that Doris Roberts, a she she cut, she said, it's a great character to bring in, because suddenly it's someone who doesn't know the secret. And in the first Season, everybody knows the two people that work at Remington the three, you know, the two people that work under Laura Holt at the Remington Steele agency know that the guy that shows up is not Remington Steele. Right. And so everybody's in on it. And I think there was a lot of fun in the second Season that I enjoyed, where where doors, Roberts thinks that the Remington Steele character is the boss of Remington Steele agency, weirdly enough, and so they get a lot they really get to nod to she's doing all the work, and he's taking all the bowels. And and it's frustrating for Laura Holt when she has to keep that up, even with people who work for her. So I thought that was a really great way to highlight the frustration for the Laura Holt character.

Sharon Johnson  11:05

Yeah. And she added an element that was missing from the show that that brought a different energy from the the two characters that Mildred Krebs replaced. And they also gave her more to do that, I think, ultimately than the other two did. She was always involved in whatever case was going on. Others, they weren't.

Susan Lambert Hatem  11:25

And she wanted to be.

Sharon Johnson  11:26


Susan Lambert Hatem  11:26

And again, talk about a woman that took agency of her life path. You know, she she comes into the show as an insurance... No, no, IRS.

Sharon Johnson  11:36


Susan Lambert Hatem  11:36

She's an IRS agent. And so she comes in and she stomps in, and she's gonna get to the bottom of why Remington Steele hasn't paid any taxes.  (guffaw)

Sharon Johnson  11:44


Susan Lambert Hatem  11:45

This giant head of an Agency hasn't paid taxes, ever. So so suddenly, they have this big problem, which is kind of a funny problem that very much draws straight out of the concept. But then she has so much fun when she ends up chasing Remington Steele and Laura Holt down to Mexico. She has so much fun with their case, that she gets drawn into the idea that, that she could really do something different with her life. And it seems, and then she's like, Yeah, I want, I lost my job because I chased you down here and you ruined my life. But now I want to work here.

Sharon Johnson  12:23

Yeah. And at first, she's mostly in the office and doing, you know, research and over time, she wants to get involved. She wants to be part of the case and be out in the field. And there's even an Episode where she actually takes on a case.

Susan Lambert Hatem  12:39


Sharon Johnson  12:39

There's another Episode where she actually tells her friends that she's a detective. (Laughs) They think that she is a detective.

Susan Lambert Hatem  12:44

Yeah, and she starts to, she starts, but and they but, they allow her.

Sharon Johnson  12:46


Susan Lambert Hatem  12:47

They allow her to pursue more, like they allow her to move up the ladder at Remington Steele. They, she continues to have to be everybody in the office. And she's apparent, the big joke is also she's the only one that can kind of work the computer.

Sharon Johnson  12:59


Susan Lambert Hatem  13:00

The brand new computer that came, comes in, which is adorable and very 80s. He's like, Oh, we're gonna we're gonna print something out on the computer.

Sharon Johnson  13:09

Yeah, there were a couple of shots just sort of as an aside where something is printing on that... I don't remember what it's called... But that paper that was all..

Susan Lambert Hatem  13:16

That had the, you tear away the sides

Sharon Johnson  13:18

Yes. Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem  13:19

Dot matrix printer? No.

Sharon Johnson  13:21

Yes, I think that is. Yes, and I just thought, Oh, goodness! (guffaw) ... any of those things around anymore (laughs).

Susan Lambert Hatem  13:29

Yeah, it's very funny. The computer stuff in 80s. Television is always really fun. Because it seems so it's, it's like nostalgia, like, and it's so rudimentary. And I think somewhat inconceivable to younger generations, particularly now. We're gonna like, it's like watching like, like somebody on one of those old timey bicycles. (laughs)

Sharon Johnson  13:55

(Laughs) Yes. It's like, there's this magic machine, as opposed to this thing that everybody just really takes for granted these days. So.

Susan Lambert Hatem  14:01

Yeah, anyway. So, I do love that. And I also love that again, she gets a little bit of some romances. You know? She talks about in some of the interviews that she was pushing for them to, you know, give her more romances. And I think they should have. I think that in Season Two and Three, they actually really use her a lot. And I'm not gonna say as opposed to other things, but that's for the next Episode. So I do love when they use her, and when, and what's great is also she becomes this sort of in between, for the two of them. She's both mother and like sister, and you know, high school friend. Because their relationship is so on and off and so tumultuous as they draw out that relationship between Laura and Remington Steele that she becomes a sounding board for both of them. And then becomes a champion for for them to be together

Sharon Johnson  14:58

But at, but at this part in the show, because again, she's she's new to everything. She's very much, let's say a little in awe of Remington Steele.

Susan Lambert Hatem  15:07

She's a huge like she definitely yeah.

Sharon Johnson  15:10

Whatever he wants, whatever he needs, she's there for him, you know, bends over backwards. And Laura, she's kind of like, alright honey, and kind of you know, whatever! I'll get to you eventually. But it's really great. It's really a lot of fun.

Susan Lambert Hatem  15:22

There's a great line. I think it's in Season Two, where there's some point where Laura Holt finally says, you have to tell her to listen to me. (Laughs)

Sharon Johnson  15:30


Susan Lambert Hatem  15:31

Because she's only listening to you. And so Remington Steele does. And then Doris Roberts has this moment where she's like, wait... So you're the boss. But you're in charge? Like, it's, it's great.

Sharon Johnson  15:40


Susan Lambert Hatem  15:40

And um, it's a, it's a really lovely moment that sums up the show, both thematically and, you know, descriptively. But also with a lot of comedy, which the show is clearly just so. I think really rightfully, and yet, sometimes so much turned into comedy. Like the screwball comedy element of this show, dialed up and down, depending on the Episode. Sometimes it's a little uneven, you know. Particularly looking back. You're like, Oh, this got really goofy, you know, like.

Sharon Johnson  16:16

But it's, but I was kind of okay with that, because you really weren't quite sure. It was really weren't quite sure what to expect in terms of, you know, tone, the degree to which the comedy was going to be at the forefront versus the melodrama. And they did both very well. So I thought that was actually kind of kind of, kind of nice.

Susan Lambert Hatem  16:40

Yeah. I did, too. I think sometimes when they were still trying to find it, I think in Two they were definitely still trying to find exactly where that sweet spot was. That some, some of them are like, Huh, okay. All right. Some, you know, but what also they were doing in Season Two was, I think, often not. We're gonna talk about TV Tropes today. That's the other thing I want to talk about. Because they, they have a lot of them in there. And there's a great website called tvtropes.org that you know, sort of showcases all the various tropes that happen in television, for any genre. But they have a lovely set for detective and mysteries. And, and so, and this hits, particularly in Season Two, it really just starts hitting all of them. There's the Boxer Episode, which is so funny. Like how many boxers actually had to hire detectives? Because in every detective show, there's a Boxing Episode. (guffaw)

Sharon Johnson  17:36


Susan Lambert Hatem  17:38

Like really? Like boxers and, are hiring detectives? Like was that a thing that was really happening in the 80s?

Sharon Johnson  17:45

Who knew? (Chuckles)

Susan Lambert Hatem  17:47

But what's funny is so many episodes just sort of decided a new side of Remington Steele, like of the Pierce Brosnan character, the true backstory. So since his backstory is so unknown throughout the show, they just give him everything. So in the Boxing Episode, they're like, Oh yeah! He was a, he was a lightweight boxer. He's huge. He could have gone and, you know, toured through Africa or something. Like it's just, it's so, it's just a given that he's suddenly this great boxer. And they pull it off, you know. And your, you're like, okay. But that happens a lot in the show, where suddenly it's like, Oh, and he can steal diamonds. And he can do this.

Sharon Johnson  18:20

Well, when you have a character whose background is completely a mystery, I guess you can throw anything in there. And we'll go along with it because we don't know. We have no idea what he's been up to since before the day he showed up at um, in Laura's life and took over as Remington Steele. So sure, why not?

Susan Lambert Hatem  18:38

Well, and he and it's, and it's so, so clear that he's not only sort of a thief. He's got you know, some thievery in his background, chasing down special diamonds and and fancy cursed paintings. But he also is a con man. And so the fact that he can kind of pretend to be anything, means he's got to be somewhat good at it, to pull it, pull it off. Yeah, so they, they definitely have the Boxing Episode. They have what TV Tropes call the Chained Heat, where at some point, Remington Steele and Laura Holt have to be chained together.

Sharon Johnson  19:10


Susan Lambert Hatem  19:11

And that's in the Episode, Steele Your Heart Away. They do that also in Scarecrow and Mrs. King. They also do it in an 80s show that's not female driven called Hardcastle and McCormick. I think, again, every other show in the 80s had to change their characters together and then put them on the lam.

Sharon Johnson  19:27

Well, maybe it's one way to eliminate the need for another set. They're in one place. You don't have to worry about (Chuckles).

Susan Lambert Hatem  19:33

Well it is, it's the the fighting duo that has to work together. Right? That is definitely, that's been Movies and you know.

Sharon Johnson  19:40

Yeah, it's been around a long time.

Susan Lambert Hatem  19:41

It's been around a long time.

Sharon Johnson  19:42


Susan Lambert Hatem  19:42

And and, it's still you know. Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? They're at the beginning, they're all chained together. So Season One, the opening to Season One is is the "saga sell". Is that beautiful Laura Holt, that beautiful Stephanie Zimbalist voice with her "Try this for a deep dark secret." I love it. And that beautiful Henry Mancini music. And then in Season Two, they change the opening. And that's a trope. Replacing the theme song is a trope that happens when you get new Seasons. Right? And you know, it's like, Okay, now we really know what the show is about. Anybody who's watching kind of understands the concept by now, we assume in Season Two. But, but this the opening of Season Two is so insane. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Sharon Johnson  20:23

I do, in the movie theater?

Susan Lambert Hatem  20:24


Sharon Johnson  20:25

Ostensibly watching clips of I guess what happened in Season One?

Susan Lambert Hatem  20:28

They're watching clips of themselves. (Laughs)

Sharon Johnson  20:30


Susan Lambert Hatem  20:32

So the two characters are in the movie theater, eating popcorn, while clips of their adventures from Season One play.

Sharon Johnson  20:40

By themselves, by the way. There's nobody else in the theater except them.

Susan Lambert Hatem  20:43

So it's like, like, somebody's put together this movie for them (guffaw). To remind them how adventurous and sexy they've been. And how sometimes Laura's been a little more dangerous than she should have.

Sharon Johnson  20:53


Susan Lambert Hatem  20:55

It's so conceptually odd. Right? I love it.

Sharon Johnson  20:58

And honestly, I hadn't really thought about what exactly it was and how odd it was that this was happening. And I just enjoyed it. I thought it was, I thought it was really fun. But yeah, it makes no sense. (Laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  21:11

It's super fun, but it makes no sense. And then and then of course, they also get romantic at the end of the clips. And then they disappear and leave the popcorn behind.

Sharon Johnson  21:19

That's right.

Susan Lambert Hatem  21:20

And you get the sense that they have gone off to have a little date. Again, conceptually insane. Right?

Sharon Johnson  21:25


Susan Lambert Hatem  21:26

You're like, it's so meta about the show, and about those characters being meta about themselves, and their relationship to the television show. And again, since there's a lot of references, you know. Remington Steele, the unnamed character, as a lover of old movies and classic movies and uses that to help him solve crimes. He's like, Oh, this is just like the Maltese Falcon, you know. And so that plays into this opening, clearly, but it's, it's really great. And it's gone by the beginning of Season Three.

Sharon Johnson  21:55

Yeah, I found that a little odd that they replaced it at the beginning of Season Three.

Susan Lambert Hatem  22:00

They replace it and they replace the music.

Sharon Johnson  22:01

Yeah, I don't know, it was rather strange. Because that's not something usually that happened in 80s TV, TV shows, I don't think. Really.

Susan Lambert Hatem  22:08

You would play some clips. You would add just, usually it's clips of the characters. And it's particularly for a character show. Right? Like, so particularly for like, here, we have these, these, these, these two going on there many adventures. And it's basically here's the coolest clips of them going on there many adventures. That's kind of the opening of many 80s TV shows. But this, and again, uh my theory is... What is it 1983 when Season Three starts? or 84? It's 84. Everybody got a computer. So this is what I'm gonna say about 1984 Season openers in television. All the studios got computers that year. And they all decided to use their computer graphics.

Sharon Johnson  22:50


Susan Lambert Hatem  22:51

They could use computer graphics, very early rudimentary computer graphics. And that's what they use for the opening of Season, they have this weird line drawing of Remington Steele and Laura Holt. And then they fly into it, and then get to the clips. And on one hand, probably in 1984, you're like, Whoa! Never seen that before, because you hadn't. Couldn't do that in a TV show. But they got a computer that year.

Sharon Johnson  23:14


Susan Lambert Hatem  23:15

And they had a computer graphics guy. He's like, look what, uh the editor's like, look what I could do! And I, you know, there's nice new clips in that new opening. They they, I don't love the version of the theme song. It feels to me like they slow down the theme song a little bit.

Sharon Johnson  23:29

Well I'm not particularly crazy about the opening from Season Three. I really, for all of its oddness and oddity, I preferred the the one from Season Two.

Susan Lambert Hatem  23:38

I did too.

Sharon Johnson  23:39


Susan Lambert Hatem  23:39

I don't care that they're sitting in a movie theater watching clips of their life.

Sharon Johnson  23:44

(lauging) I don't either.

Susan Lambert Hatem  23:44

The way that you do. (Laughs) It was perfectly adorable.

Sharon Johnson  23:49

Yeah, exactly.

Susan Lambert Hatem  23:50

And this is less adorable.      

Sharon Johnson  23:52


Susan Lambert Hatem  23:52

Because it's all about the like, flying into the lines of their faces and hair. And you're like, I am not interested in that. I'm interested in watching these two, be cute together.

Sharon Johnson  24:00


Susan Lambert Hatem  24:01

And solve crime...

Sharon Johnson  24:01

...That's what we're here for.

Susan Lambert Hatem  24:02

That's what we're here for. Solve some crime. All right. So um. But enough about changing the theme song and changing the tune. What we're gona to have to do, Sharon, is we're gona have to take a break. And then we're gona come back and we're gona talk about a couple more tropes. And then we're gona go into... What's our next thing? What are we gona? Oh, oh!  We gotta talk about....

Sharon Johnson  24:19

... Episodes.

Susan Lambert Hatem  24:19

We got to talk about Episodes.

Sharon Johnson  24:20


Susan Lambert Hatem  24:20

Our favorite episodes.

Sharon Johnson  24:21


Susan Lambert Hatem  24:21

That's gonna be so much fun. Alright we'll see you in a minute.

80sTVLadies   24:23 ______________________________________________________________

(Commercial Break)

Susan Lambert Hatem  24:27

Alright, Sharon, welcome back!

Sharon Johnson  24:28

There you go.

Susan Lambert Hatem  24:28

So this beautiful dialogue in the show. There's a lot of wonderful, sparkly, fun dialogue. And so they do have some lovely moments. Laura and Remington particularly about who he is. Right? And so Remington is talking to a client in I think Steeel Belted, and he says I guarantee your your exoneration on all charges buddy or my name isn't Remington Steele. And then Laura Holt turns to him and says, Your name isn't Remington Steele.

Sharon Johnson  24:57


Susan Lambert Hatem  24:57

And he's like, a mere technicality. What other tropes can you think of? I mean, there's a lot in this show. I mean, every detective show has them.

Sharon Johnson  25:03

Well, I mean, there's there's always the you know, the relative with the cheating spouse, or the...

Susan Lambert Hatem  25:09

They do that. Laura Laura's sister, thinks her husband is cheating on her. And that's a whole drama Episode. I kind of, I have a theory about Laura's sister. So Laura's sister comes in during this time. Right? And there's a couple Episodes in Two, Three and Four with Laura's sister, and Laura sister is taking a more traditional female path.

Sharon Johnson  25:28


Susan Lambert Hatem  25:29

And they make a point of it. Like Laura's sister who's got married and has kids. Her husband is an insurance? Dentist?

Sharon Johnson  25:36

It's, I'm drawing a blank. Dentist is what I originally thought but I'm not ready to swear to it.

Susan Lambert Hatem  25:41

But but not not a you know, exhilarating, like dangerous career.

Sharon Johnson  25:45

No, not at all. Just you know, you're you're very normal guy, basically. Nothing wrong with that.

Susan Lambert Hatem  25:50

So they bring Laura Holt's sister, but they've never really gotten along. And they, and Laura thinks it's because they have made different life choices. And she feels judged by not having gotten married and having kids. And Laura's sister thinks Laura is living this, you know, amazing, crazy life out in California. So they sort of have to come to an agreement on how they're going to move forward as sisters, through the course of this mystery that they have to solve where Laura's sister thinks that her husband's having an affair. And it's adorable. It's another level of talking about women and talking about stuff. It's also a little cliche. There's some, a lot of cliches in there. This Episode came after Scarecrow and Mrs. King had aired, and I think they are very aware, they're bringing in basically a 'Mrs. King' character...

Sharon Johnson  26:40

Oh interesting.

Susan Lambert Hatem  26:41

...To this show, particularly the second time she, when she comes back. So she's in an Episode in Season Two, and then she comes back. And in a later Season she's literally driving I think, the same station wagon that Mrs. King drives on Scarecrow and Mrs King.

Sharon Johnson  26:53


Susan Lambert Hatem  26:53

So I think there's sort of like nodding or poking at Scarecrow and Mrs. King, and they talked about being aware when we interviewed them. They talked about being you know, aware that that Scarecrow and Mrs. King was there and Moonlighting both coming after Remington Steele, but both clearly in the same world. But I think it's so interesting, because it's those episodes that are actually examining what are the roles of women. And they themselves are questioning what their role is and how they feel. I think Laura feels bad that she doesn't want that. Or that she doesn't have it. Or she feels like she's supposed to have it. She feels like less of a daughter to her mother. She talks about that.

Sharon Johnson  27:29

Do you think that she feels that way? Or she feels that her mother feels that way?

Susan Lambert Hatem  27:33

She feels judged. Yeah, No. She she feels judged because of her life choices. Yes. No, she doesn't feel that way. But she does feel I think secondary to her sister.

Sharon Johnson  27:42


Susan Lambert Hatem  27:43

Because her sister has been the good one. So. Right?

Sharon Johnson  27:46

Yeah. No it, it was 80s. I mean, it wasn't... Well, not that it's still easy now. But it's wasn't, especially then, it wasn't easy to make a choice that was outside the quote unquote, norm, to go a different path as many women were trying to do. Because yeah, there was a lot of judgment about it.

Susan Lambert Hatem  28:04

And they talk about that. And I think there's even a moment where her sister asks her if she wants children or something. And she says, I don't know. I think there is. Maybe I made that up. But I think there is. I wonder if the Network had something to say about that.

Sharon Johnson  28:16

Wouldn't surprise me.

Susan Lambert Hatem  28:17

Like how Laura Holt would answer that question. That they'd have an opinion about that. Okay. But the other, there's one more trope on the TV Tropes that I thought was very interesting because it is a trope that they say does not necessarily technically occur in the Remington Steele show. The real Remington Steele has become its own trope for other pop culture projects. So it's, it's sort of not a trope that technically happens in Remington Steele, but it takes its name from Remington Steele, which I thought was interesting....

Sharon Johnson  28:47

Oh, gosh I didn't know that.

Susan Lambert Hatem  28:48

... According to TVTropes.org. And it's a new character shows up in the scene, usually with mystery. And eventually the mask, literally or metaphorically is removed, and the stranger turns out to be in a disguise created by an established character pretending for some plot reason. Right? They were tricking people. It happens apparently a lot in comic books.

Sharon Johnson  29:12


Susan Lambert Hatem  29:13

Oh, it turns out I'm really Magneto, and I've been pretending to be a dog this whole time. And then another character shows up being them too. Like it's like the... What's that spider man meme? gif?

Sharon Johnson  29:25

Oh gosh yes. The three spider men.

Susan Lambert Hatem  29:27

The three Spider Mans.

Sharon Johnson  29:28


Susan Lambert Hatem  29:28

It's like wait, you're Spider Man. I'm Spider Man. So it's that. Somehow, that's the Remington Steele. That's called the Remington Steele trope. The real Remington Steele.

Sharon Johnson  29:35

I didn't know that was named after Reming. That's so interesting. That's so interesting. (Laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  29:41

I thought that was interesting, too! Which is why I brought it up. (Laughs)

Sharon Johnson  29:44

This is why we have a podcast people to learn about things like this.

Susan Lambert Hatem  29:47

To learn about interesting things. So there's not two, there's not another Remington Steele that shows up. There's just no Remington Steele. And then a guy shows up to be Remington Steele.

Sharon Johnson  29:57


Susan Lambert Hatem  29:58

But at no point in the show, does another Remington Steele show up saying actually I'm the real Remington Steele. Which might have been funny.

Sharon Johnson  30:05

It could've been interesting, but,

Susan Lambert Hatem  30:07

It could have been somebody else out there being Remington Steele.

Sharon Johnson  30:09


Susan Lambert Hatem  30:10

That could be an episode. We should write an episode.

Sharon Johnson  30:11


Susan Lambert Hatem  30:12

All right, now we're gonna talk about our favorite, some of our favorite and interesting episodes. We've talked about a few just during the course of the tropes, but some that felt really stand out, for reasons.

Sharon Johnson  30:25

Well, I think I'd start with in Season Two, the the the introduction of Doris Krebs, and the first you see, the first two episodes. It's a great introduction and a great way to change the cast, as they've moved on from the the two cast members from Season One and moved in this direction. And the episodes themselves were a lot of fun to watch as well.

Susan Lambert Hatem  30:47

Yeah, the the Mexico episodes were really, you know they were shot and in a fun way. There was a lot of adventure, but they I think they hit that tone just right. Like and, and she, the Krebs, Mildred Krebs character is an amazing character who again allows the other two characters to even be more of themselves. And yet she sort of fits in pretty seamlessly. It's pretty quick that you're like, Yeah, we need her to be part of this. Yeah, you're pretty happy when when they are clearly heading in that direction.

Sharon Johnson  31:18

And I think, you know, I think when we had started, when I started rewatching the show, on some level, I may have even forgotten that Mildred wasn't part of the show from the beginning. Because she's just so indelible, and so, in my head, part of the show.

Susan Lambert Hatem  31:34

She's she's the triumvirate.

Sharon Johnson  31:36


Susan Lambert Hatem  31:36

It is the triumvirate.

Sharon Johnson  31:37


Susan Lambert Hatem  31:37

And that is, when they, when they go off of that, is sometimes when the show isn't as strong. And again, what you then have is two female leads and one male lead. Which is, I think, a very interesting dynamic, particularly when it's not supposed to be a triangle. It's supposed to be people working together. And that dynamic, where they're all like, Okay. You're doing this and you're doing that, and we're doing this. And I found out this boss! It's pretty well oiled machine. And I like that.

Sharon Johnson  32:04

Yeah, me too.

Susan Lambert Hatem  32:05

One of my episodes that I like is the Circus Episode. I would say a Circus Episode might be a TV trope. I don't know if it is officially on the TVTropes site, but I'm gonna call out that there are many, many shows that do a Circus Episode. More than most people go to the Circus.

Sharon Johnson  32:23

Oh, yeah, I would guess the same.

Susan Lambert Hatem  32:25

But in this case, they did it for a reason. From what I read, they found out that Pierce Brosnan already knew how to eat fire.

Sharon Johnson  32:32


Susan Lambert Hatem  32:33

That he had spent time as a fire eater. And you're like, Okay.

Sharon Johnson  32:36


Susan Lambert Hatem  32:37

And you'd be like, Wait. You can eat fire? Okay, hold the presses. We gotta figure out how to write an episode where Pierce Brosnan is gonna eat fire.

Sharon Johnson  32:46

Surprised it took them into Season Two to figure that out. (laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  32:48

I don't think they knew until Season Two.

Sharon Johnson  32:50


Susan Lambert Hatem  32:51

They were so excited to find this out. And so they make, so so they of course have to go undercover into a Circus where someone's been killed.

Sharon Johnson  33:00

And all three of them go undercover including, including Mildred...

Susan Lambert Hatem  33:02

... And all three of them go undercover. It's a great, you know again, for a Circus Episode, which, personally I'm not a huge Circus Episode fan. It's actually a pretty good, pretty good Episode because everybody gets something to do.

Sharon Johnson  33:13


Susan Lambert Hatem  33:14

And Laura Holt poses as a trapeze artist, which is how one of the people died. Right? So it's a little bit more dangerous for her to be a trapeze artist, and then Remington as the fire eater. And it's and it's great. And she apparently, like Stephanie Zimbalist did most of her trapeze artist stuff.

Sharon Johnson  33:32

Well she did most of her stunts in general. So, I guess it, it should be...

Susan Lambert Hatem  33:35

So impressive.

Sharon Johnson  33:35

... too much of a surprise that she'd be like, Yeah, sure. I'll do it. You know?

Susan Lambert Hatem  33:39

So impressive. Like she's a, she's like, like, amazing.

Sharon Johnson  33:42

Yeah, absolutely.

Susan Lambert Hatem  33:43

Yeah. So that, that's a really fun episode because they're clearly having a good time. They're all do, get something to do. It's and, it's pretty great. It's pretty great that way, so I enjoyed that one. I actually did enjoy the Boxing Episode because it also had a, a baby.

Sharon Johnson  33:56


Susan Lambert Hatem  33:57

A Boxing Episode and a baby that came out of nowhere.

Sharon Johnson  34:01

Those two things don't usually go together.

Susan Lambert Hatem  34:03

But man that's a great, that's a great scene. The baby and then there's a dead body in the locker in the Boxing Episode. That that that Boxing Episode actually holds up pretty well.

Sharon Johnson  34:11


Susan Lambert Hatem  34:11

What are some of your favorites?

Sharon Johnson  34:13

Well, nothing else jumps out of me at Season Two, but I have several in Season Three that I really like.

Susan Lambert Hatem  34:19

Alright before, I'm gona, I'm gonna say one more in Season Two that jumps out to me, which is the case that involves the Vintage Auto.

Sharon Johnson  34:24

Oh yes of course.

Susan Lambert Hatem  34:26

Vintage automobile and.

Sharon Johnson  34:27

Well only because it brings the, this car into the show.

Susan Lambert Hatem  34:31

Somehow they end up with the car. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. I am, I'm gonna have ta.

Sharon Johnson  34:37

It's a, it's to, it's so conspicuous but it's the car is so gorgeous. So why not? Why shouldn't they be tooling around Los Angeles? In a...

Susan Lambert Hatem  34:44

It's the perfect Remington Steele detective who never actually hides while trailing someone...

Sharon Johnson  34:50

(Laughs) Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem  34:50

... vehicle. What's funny is it does take their number of vehicles to three in that show. So she has at the beginning of show, the little Cabriolet. And then there's of course, the limo that already exists. That basically is representing to the world, Remington Steele. It's one of the things she's using to fake Remington Steele, is to have this limo show up places that everybody's like, Oh! Remington Steele must be in that limo. And uh, and be the mysterious head of the Agency. And then it turns out that they solve this case that has to do with murder and intrigue and diamonds and jewels in the car, and love affairs. And then somehow they end up with the car.

Sharon Johnson  35:37


Susan Lambert Hatem  35:37

It's being stolen the whole show by like six different people.

Sharon Johnson  35:42

Yeah, and changes hands serveral times. And then the next thing you know, it's their car.

Susan Lambert Hatem  35:45

It's their car.  I'm still not sure how that happened.

Sharon Johnson  35:48

I'm not either, but I, I...

Susan Lambert Hatem  35:49

But uh, you're like, okay. Great.

Sharon Johnson  35:50

Yeah, pretty much.

Susan Lambert Hatem  35:51

And so that becomes kind of his car.

Sharon Johnson  35:54


Susan Lambert Hatem  35:54

Anyway, it's kind of adorable. I'd now I'm like, all obsessed a little bit about that. So I'm gonna actually reach out to a friend of mine who does a car podcast about cars and movies and TV, and see if he'll come and talk to us about cars and 80s.

Sharon Johnson  36:08

That'd be great.

Susan Lambert Hatem  36:08

I think so too, and particularly about Remington Steele.  Alright, so Season Three. What, what's some of your, your special episodes?

Sharon Johnson  36:14

Well, the first one that comes to mind is, other than I mean, I know that they started the Season on the French Riviera. And that was that was a lot of fun.

Susan Lambert Hatem  36:21

Ooo. I want to talk about that.

Sharon Johnson  36:22

Yeah. Well, why don't we talk about it now?

Susan Lambert Hatem  36:24

Oh, ok.

Sharon Johnson  36:24

Let's try to do it in some some semblance of order.

Susan Lambert Hatem  36:26

Because you know, when that was?

Sharon Johnson  36:28

During the Olympics! (Laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  36:29

During the Olympics! And suddenly the opening of their Season, they were in the French Riviera and Malta! And so I guess they just packed up their LA crew. Said take it off, and we're going overseas. We're going to Europe. Shows aren't shot in LA anymore. Most television shows are not shot in Los Angeles and that is a shame.

Sharon Johnson  36:50

Yeah. And and living here in this area. It's it's getting to a point where it's pretty easy to tell, even supposedly it's shot here or set here, whatever, if it's if it is or not. And it's always nice to see when shows are, that actually are shot here in and around town. You can, I can tell the difference. I'm you know, most people most viewers, maybe not they're not really paying attention to that that closely, but because I'm aware of how much production has left town that it does. It is somewhere in the back of my mind whenever I watch something so.

Susan Lambert Hatem  37:21

And I have to say this show is a little bit of a love affair with with Los Angeles. It is a very Los Angeles show, you know, and those buildings in Century City that they use to be, you know, one of them is the office of Remington Steele. Those are iconic buildings in Century City and even more iconic, because they're the Remington Steele. You know it because of Remington Steele. And driving around like there are times when we were watching and I was like, oh, that's 80s Los Angeles. And it made me nostalgic for 80s like Los Angeles freeway. I mean, come on. What is that about?

Sharon Johnson  37:57


Susan Lambert Hatem  37:59

So yes, so I love that they shot in LA and I love that then they all escaped. And they were afraid of the Olympics. And they went running away.

Sharon Johnson  38:07

Yeah, it worked out great for those, those of us that were stuck behind. Because traffic was great. I think we've mentioned before.

Susan Lambert Hatem  38:13

Yes, traffic was great. And, and then we all got these fancy, they. Remington Steele did a lot of episodes. And I think use their locations well, when they went away.

Sharon Johnson  38:23

Oh, very much so.

Susan Lambert Hatem  38:24

It was very exotic. It was clearly sort of very James Bondy. Very, you know, it was again another way for. That was special effects in the 80s. That was we're going to showcase something that you poor view are stuck at home may not ever get to see the French Riviera.

Sharon Johnson  38:42

They made really good use of the locales and some amazing vistas, you know, on the water on or near the water was. It was awesome.

Susan Lambert Hatem  38:51

And we get to see. Like this is also when the relationship sort of deepens a little bit because we suddenly. We get to know that a lot of the reason he doesn't have a lot of history is he doesn't know a lot of his history. So an orphan and poor little orphan boy, little Oliver.

Sharon Johnson  39:07


Susan Lambert Hatem  39:09

And they never name it. It's so hard to talk about the character behind Remington Steele since there is no name for that character.

Sharon Johnson  39:17

Yeah. And even as the show goes on, so little is really known beyond what he doesn't know, obviously, he doesn't know and the show could have told us some things but they chose not to to keep it from us as well. So yeah, we really don't know that much about him. So.

Susan Lambert Hatem  39:30

So one of his names is Harry. Um, and we also get more Stephen, Efrem Zimbalist Jr, who's fantastic.

Sharon Johnson  39:37

But that actually brings up something. Because I know that that's the name that Efrem Zimbalist Jr's character called him. There was a part of me that never believed that, that never trusted that he was telling the truth.

Susan Lambert Hatem  39:50

And I think there's some, we're gonna again, we're not right at Season Five. There's some other secrets to come out about the Remington Steele. The man behind Remington Steele.

Sharon Johnson  39:59


Susan Lambert Hatem  40:00

And I, and in some ways, I think they, by giving Laura the sister and her mom, you know, was there early Season. And there's there's some, her backstory is that her dad walked out. So her trust issue. That's the trust, one of the trust issues she has with trusting this unknown man who has taken the mantle of Remington Steele. And will she ever know who he really is? And how can she fall in love with somebody when she doesn't know who he really is? And how can she trust that he'll stick around?

Sharon Johnson  40:29

Yeah, understandable. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem  40:30

But they had drag it out. By this point you're like, okay. And even he says is like, I've been around for three years now. (guffaw) Ain't that enough? But he does run. So he, I guess he takes, he get he feels like the Agency is at risk. And so he he takes off. Right? That's what happens at the end of Season Two. Right? Yeah. And so, because he takes off a couple of times.

Sharon Johnson  40:54


Susan Lambert Hatem  40:55

They both run away a bit, but mostly him. So he is running away.

Sharon Johnson  40:59

And it just sort of reinforces for her that she needs to know more before she can go feet first into this relationship. Again, underst, I think totally understandable.

Susan Lambert Hatem  41:09

All right, but in Season Three, so they eventually come back from Europe once they figure out that there's a lot more mystery to the man behind Remington Steele. And but they decide they're gona to work together again, but they still not sure if they're going to sleep together, basically. And you're like, really? Three years? It was the 80s. So, on television.

Sharon Johnson  41:30


Susan Lambert Hatem  41:30

The 80's in real life, I think we're very different. What I do love is they continue the shout out to all the classic classic movies.

Sharon Johnson  41:38

Oh, yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem  41:39

So much fun. And there's a lot of a lot of fun ones in Season Three. They literally go and get big stars. So one of my favorite episodes is Episode Nine of Season Three, Cast In Steele, with Virginia Mayo, Dorothy Lamour, Lloyd Nolan as themselves and trying to figure out who is attempting to kill them.

Sharon Johnson  42:02

That is one of my favorites as well because I thought...

Susan Lambert Hatem  42:04

Very adorable.

Sharon Johnson  42:05

... This is so wonderful. That they were able to do this after spending, you know, two and a half Seasons calling out all of these classic movies, and then get some classic movie stars to actually be in the in the show. I just thought that was fantastic.

Susan Lambert Hatem  42:19

Yeah, it it, and I like when they're 'meta-ing'. Right? It's a little bit of meta for that show. It's like he gets to meet some real stars. And whenever that happens, he's like a complete, you know, fan. And then they are using these movie references to solve crimes.

Sharon Johnson  42:36

Yeah, exactly.

Susan Lambert Hatem  42:36

Which you're like, Okay, sure. I'd buy that.

Sharon Johnson  42:39

One of my other favorites is a few episodes before that Episode Seven called A Pocketful of Steele. The one with the the Orphan who basically is, sort of out stealing Steele. And uh.

Susan Lambert Hatem  42:50


Sharon Johnson  42:51

He's a he's a witness to something or other. And they're trying to find him and trying to...

Susan Lambert Hatem  42:55

And he yeah.

Sharon Johnson  42:56

And yeah, he's it's it's great watching how perplexed Remington Steele is that this kid is constantly getting the best of him. And it feels like the tables have been turned on him a little bit. And he can he get, he's getting a sense of what Laura has been going through in terms of him.

Susan Lambert Hatem  43:11


Sharon Johnson  43:11

I really I really enjoyed that.

Susan Lambert Hatem  43:13

And he's also looking at a young himself.

Sharon Johnson  43:15


Susan Lambert Hatem  43:15

And so yeah though, that. Adorable!

Sharon Johnson  43:18

Yeah, I had a lot of fun with that episode. But so many so many good episodes.

Susan Lambert Hatem  43:23

You also see that they're still keeping up a really nice level of craft. Season Three, they they're still puttin' in the effort.

Sharon Johnson  43:31

Oh absoloutely.

Susan Lambert Hatem  43:31

I don't know if they're, if they're, I don't know that their budget got cut, this was actually the most successful Season. They actually had a, they were a little bit on the bubble, Season One. They weren't for sure coming back into Season Two. And so they were very happy to get picked up for Season Two. But by the time they went into Season Three, it was a successful show. It was a big hit. And so they are really doing some neat things. Like one of the episodes that just felt like really like, Oh! They they did something kind of cool. They did a, the comic strip.

Sharon Johnson  44:06

Illustrated Steele.

Susan Lambert Hatem  44:07

Illustrated Steele, Episode 19. A comic strip Inker hires them because he has been, he realizes like he's had almost like near death experiences. And it turns out he's been there, they're based on the comics he's inking of a fictional detective, that sort of loosely based on Remington Steele. So it's really fun.

Sharon Johnson  44:29

And if I may, last but not least for Season Three, one of my all time favorite episodes happens to be Episode 20, Steele In the Chips, co-written by...

Susan Lambert Hatem  44:38

Our two fabulous guests.

Sharon Johnson  44:40

Yes, Stephanie Zimbalist and and Robert Bern, Robin Bernheim. Even before I realized that Stephanie was one of the co-writers, I absolutely loved this Episode.

Susan Lambert Hatem  44:51


Sharon Johnson  44:51

Love this episode, coincidentally because it has several huge stars who were guests on this episode too! Namely Geena Davis, and and Jean Smart amongst others. It is the episode that takes the screwball side of things, the comedy side of it, and pushes it as far as they possibly can, while still telling a good story, I think.

Susan Lambert Hatem  45:13


Sharon Johnson  45:13

And trying to solve a, an interesting mystery.

Susan Lambert Hatem  45:16

But very, very clever. It's very cleverly written. It's got beautiful like, female dynamics in it. I agree. It's one of my favorite of that Season.

Sharon Johnson  45:26

One of my all time favorites.

Susan Lambert Hatem  45:26

And even before we knew it was people we were gonna get to interview. And that it happened to be co-written by the star and, and her best friend and an amazing writer. So really, really great. I think we we may have to start wrapping up. I think it's time for...

Sharon Johnson  45:42

I do too.

Susan Lambert Hatem  45:44


Sharon Johnson  45:44

That sounds like a plan.

Susan Lambert Hatem  45:46

Alright, so I'm gona talk about some websites. I already mentioned tvtropes.org Super fun site for everything, not just Remington Steele. But Remington Steele based, I want to talk about a fan site. I love the fans that have kept their love alive for the show. So SteeleInLove.com is a is a very useful fan site if you want to explore some more information or pictures. So before there were podcasts, there were blogs, back in the day. And there were a lot of blogs about Remington Steele. But I think the favorite that I happen to come across during my research was Laura Holt's Closet. And you can google Laura Holt's Closet, and this site will come up. It is also at LauraHoltsCloset.blogspot.com. And it is a Fashion Blog, looking at the costumes and products used by the character Laura Holt, in the show. And then creates like outfit suggestions inspired by those those costume. She's like, if you want to put together this outfit that Laura is wearing in this scene, here they are. And and it would link to places where you could go buy that. It was like the Vogue of of the Remington Steele show. And I just thought that was adorable. That was such a a specific to the 90s I would say. I don't know when this blog was actually created. But I would say that was nine, so 90s, in or early 2000s is, create the blog that is so niche, but is actually really useful, and is going to drive you to, where to put together an outfit that looks just like Laura Holt in Season Two of Episode 5. (guffaw)

Sharon Johnson  47:23


Susan Lambert Hatem  47:24

I love it. There's also an official Doris Roberts Facebook page.

Sharon Johnson  47:29

Just go to Facebook and search official Doris Roberts.

Susan Lambert Hatem  47:32

The book I'm going to shout out today is 'Are You Hungry, Dear? Life, Laughs and Lasagna' by Doris Roberts, with Danielle Morton.

Sharon Johnson  47:41

We know it's a busy, exciting and stressful time of year. So hang in there dear friends. Curl up by the fire and watch some 80s Ladies TV. And to help you get in the spirit, let's welcome a special guest to the show today to wish you a very happy holiday.

Susan Lambert Hatem  47:55

Friend and fan of the pod. The amazing singer songwriter Michelle Malone is stopping by to say hello. Welcome Michelle to 80s TV Ladies!

Michelle Malone  48:02

Thank you so much for having me!

Sharon Johnson  48:04

We are so happy to have you on!

Susan Lambert Hatem  48:06

We were talk, you and I were talking about how important 80s TV was to us growing up. And so we wanted to have you on the show really quickly for the holidays. What are some of your favorite 80s TV Ladies that you remember?

Michelle Malone  48:19

Well, I like I was just sort of saying to you before we went on air I loved Kirstie Alley and Cheers. And actually they had a lot of great women on there. Rhea Perlman.

Susan Lambert Hatem  48:30


Michelle Malone  48:30

She was fabulous. All the 'lil four feet of her. And uh. Who else was on there? Shelley Long.

Susan Lambert Hatem  48:38


Michelle Malone  48:39

I mean, there were some great actresses, really funny characters on there. And I loved Cheers. I loved Designing Women. I really loved Golden Girls, but I don't know that we're going there today. For the Christmas episode. (Laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  48:51

Well, we are eventually gonna get to Golden Girls. Holding off, cause it's, it's the one everybody knows and loves.

Michelle Malone  48:58

But yeah, I was of a certain age in the 80s, where I didn't watch as much TV in the 80s as I did in the 70s. But I loved Cheers.

Susan Lambert Hatem  49:07

I love Cheers, too. And we were just talking about there being a Christmas Episode of Cheers called, Christmas Cheers.

Michelle Malone  49:16

Bahaha. Haha.

Susan Lambert Hatem  49:20

We thought it would be fun to have you on to help us welcome people to the Holiday Season. Because you have a new Christmas Album out with Michelle and The Hot Toddies.

Michelle Malone  49:31

I do. Technically it's only out for people who come to my shows or did the Kickstarter. And then it's gonna be, get it's International release next Christmas. But I can give you a sneak peek.

Susan Lambert Hatem  49:42

Would you?

Michelle Malone  49:43

I can play it for you. But first, I want to show it to you. Dudah!  

Susan Lambert Hatem  49:47

Oh, it's beautiful.

Michelle Malone  49:48

It's the album.

Susan Lambert Hatem  49:48

It's a whole album.

Michelle Malone  49:49

It's pretty fun. Yeah. And that's the back.

Susan Lambert Hatem  49:52

That's very 80s of you.

Michelle Malone  49:54

Yeah, it didn't very, well what we do in The Hot Toddies. It's kind of a throwback to more of the classic Christmas songs and in a retro feel. And you know, they're bouncy. Fun, fun fun. And and just as a side note, this record is in red vinyl.

Susan Lambert Hatem  50:13

Okay, that's very cool. It looks like, it looks like candy.

Michelle Malone  50:16

Makes me want to eat it. Right?

Susan Lambert Hatem  50:18

It looks like a Jolly Rancher record.

Michelle Malone  50:22

(Laughs) Well doesn't quite taste like one. I wish I could put like uh, scratch and sniff, or like taste tests on the record. Wouldn't that'd be great?

Sharon Johnson  50:28

It would be.

Michelle Malone  50:30

But uh, do you want me to sing you a song?

Susan Lambert Hatem  50:32

Yes, please.

Michelle Malone  50:33.  

Okay, I'll sing yah, the song we start every Hot Toddy Show with every December, of every year since 2017. Which is the one everyone knows and loves. (strums guitar and sings) I love those j i n g l e bells. Those Holiday j i n g l e bells. I love those j i n g l e b e double l s. I love those j i n g l e bells. Everybody! Dashing through the snow in a one-horse open sleigh. O'er the fields we go. Laughing all the way. Ha ha ha. Bells on bobtails ring. Making spirits bright. What fun it is to ride and sing a sleighin' song tonight. Oh, Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh. Hey! Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh. There's another verse. A day or two ago, I thought I'd take a ride. Soon, Miss Fanny Bryce was seated by my side. The horse was lean and lank. Misfortune was his lot. We got into an open drift and then we got upsot. Oh, jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh, hey! Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh what fun it is to ride in a one-horse open sleigh. I love those j i n g l e bells. Those Holiday j i n g l e bells. I love those j i n g l e b e double l s. I love those j i n g l e bells. Jingle bells jingle all the way.

Sharon Johnson  52:45

 Woo! (applause)

Michelle Malone  52:48

That's the shorter bridged version for you folks.

Susan Lambert Hatem  52:51

I love it because we're not sittin' in a bar, having a good time. (Laughs)

Michelle Malone  52:54

I know! It's nice to not be in a bar and still hear music.

Susan Lambert Hatem  53:00

I know. So tell us more about The Hot Toddies and how they came to be?

Michelle Malone  53:04

Well, I was in the studio in 2017, recording a record I put out called, Slings and Arrows. And I had just done a reunion with my old band, Drag the River. And my original guitar player didn't want to be part of the reunion. So we got a guy that my drummer recommended, who had been in the Atlanta music scene for many years. And I'd met him back in the 80s. But I'd never really played with him or hung out with him too much. And so he filled in for the Drag the River show. And I really enjoyed playing with him. And I liked his energy and his style and everything. So I invited him to play guitar on that record Slings and Arrows. And that went really well. And one night, after a day of recording, the drummer from that record, had a little cocktail gig in a jazz venue in midtown Atlanta. So when we got done that day in the studio, we went to see him play, his gig. And they invited Doug the guitar player, his name is Doug Keys. So Doug sat in with them and proceeded to shred in a jazz way. And the wheels started turning in my head because I've been wanting to put together a Christmas Band ever since I can remember. And if anyone who knows me can recall in '92, I put out a live Christmas record.

Susan Lambert Hatem  54:30

You did. I think I saw a show you did at Christmas time in like the 80s or 90s.

Michelle Malone  54:37

Well it would have been that one.

Susan Lambert Hatem  54:38

Ok. All right. All right. Yeah.

Michelle Malone  54:40

And the band, you know, we didn't rehearse so much. And then I was a smoker back then. So you know, everything was what it was. But fast forward to now, Doug Keys and I, we have three bands (guffaw), including The Hot Toddies and he plays in my Michelle Malone Band. And he's just fun. He's like my brother from another mother. So when I saw him play that night, I finally went, Oh my God! I can have my Christmas Band. And he and I brainstormed and came up with the name. And then we were off to the races. I just started booking shows. And now every December we book about, I don't know, 10 or 12 shows in the month of December and it, whoo. It's a lot of fun, but it's a whole lot of work being the Christmas Elf. I understand now. (Laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  55:25

Sending that holiday cheer to everyone. That's a lot of work.

Michelle Malone  55:29

Yeah. And we we set up, you know, a backdrop and Christmas trees and we wear fancy outfits. And so we really try to make it a nice throwback, you know. That, remember that scene in the movie White Christmas? Where they're in the battlefield, essentially, it was the opening scene and they have that Winter backdrop. And they're trying to have a Winter Christmas Show for the soldiers. Well, that's kind of what our backdrop looks like. It's a lot of fun.

Susan Lambert Hatem  55:59

That is so fun. Oh my god, I'm so excited to have you on and hear you play music and it's really special for me. I you know, uh uh full disclosure we're doing a project together called The Flirt Bar which is having its first in person reading. It's a musical with music by you, Michelle Malone and Amy Ray. And so I'm excited for the journey that we're just starting with that show. But it's not Christmassy and it's not Holiday-y. So we'll get back on the point which is... Would you mind playing us another song?

Michelle Malone  56:31.  

I would love to. So a lot of times we play Christmas songs like you've heard them your whole life, in the traditional way. And then other times we take them and we will rearrange them in you know, a slightly different way. Or even turn it on its ear. But I have a nice swingin' kind of version of Silent Night. We have an upright bass that plays with us normally, who uh (strums the guitar and sings). Silent Night. Holy night. All is calm. All is bright. Round yon virgin mother and child. Holy infant so tender and mild. Sleep in heavenly peace. Sleep in heavenly peace. Silent night! Holy night! Shepherds quake at the sight. Glories stream from Heaven afar. Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia, Christ, the Saviour, is born! Christ, the Saviour, is born! Go to sleep. Go to sleep. Go to sleep.

Sharon Johnson  59:39

Awesome. (Claps)

Susan Lambert Hatem  59:39

That is so great. Oh my God I love your voice.

Michelle Malone  59:43

Thanks so much. It's a it's a it's a little jazzer when you have an upright bass and a jazz guitar on it, you know. But, but I'll try to do 'em justice.

Sharon Johnson  59:53


Susan Lambert Hatem  59:53

(Laughs) Well, and then we're gonna have you back on in the New Year. So um, we will have you back on and do a full show with you. Because that'll be really fun. And we can talk about our favorite 80s television shows...

Michelle Malone  1:00:06

That would be great.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:00:07

... and stuff.

Michelle Malone  1:00:07

And we can talk about the Musical.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:00:09

And we can talk about the Musical! I mean, I'm, I'm really excited for, that we're finally getting to do it in person. And, and that that's a huge part of development, is to hear it out loud, in a room, with actors. And we got to do some Zoom development. And it was with The Orchard Project, and I got some really great feedback for that. But now we can really get serious about it.

Michelle Malone  1:00:31

I'm excited. It's gonna be great. It's a wonderful script.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:00:34

Thank you. We're really, I mean I, and the music. People are just, I I, it's really fun to now hear actors. Right? Do your guys's music.

Michelle Malone  1:00:44

I'm excited to hear that. That's crazy.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:00:47

I'm so glad. I don't want to keep you for too long. Because I know you gotta go back off and run off. But I just wanted to get you on for the Holidays. And we'll have you back on. You're gonna be a friend of the show. We're gonna get you back on.

Michelle Malone  1:01:00

(Laughs) Well, I was raised by television. So I'd be happy to do that.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:01:04

I love it. And and so were we.

Michelle Malone  1:01:06

Yeah, our parents had antennas.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:01:08

70s and 80s Television was very formative for all of us.

Sharon Johnson  1:01:13

I don't know anybody from that time frame who kind of wasn't raised on TV to a certain extent.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:01:19

It was our internet.

Sharon Johnson  1:01:20

Yep. Absolutely.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:01:21

It was the form of communication that was available to us.

Michelle Malone  1:01:24

That's true. And quite frankly, it was a lot easier to use. (Laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:01:29

It was.

Sharon Johnson  1:01:30

(Laughs) It really was.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:01:30

You could turn it off real easy. You could only (chuckles), you could pinpoint what what was exciting to you.

Sharon Johnson  1:01:36

And ignore the rest.

Michelle Malone  1:01:36

We had six channels, and we liked it! (Laughs)

Sharon Johnson  1:01:39

(Laughs) Thank you so much. I love music. And there's nothing for me better than hearing great singers, singing a beautiful song in a way that I can hear it and appreciate it and enjoy it without. I mean bells and whistles and all sorts of other stuff are fine for some songs. But mostly I just want to hear somebody sing. I just, that's what I want. So thank you. That was marvelous.

Michelle Malone  1:02:11

Yeah. Gosh. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. And thanks for having me on the show!

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:02:16

All right. And where can people find you, Michelle?

Michelle Malone  1:02:19

I can be found in all my incarnations at MichelleMalone.com. Michelle has two L's, Malone has one.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:02:26

All right. And we'll have the link on our, on our podcast site. 80s TV Ladies. So, and then you are also in the seven... What's the 70s band you're doing?

Michelle Malone  1:02:36

Oh, well. Okay, the 70s Band's called Canyon Land. We do the greatest hits of the 70s from Laurel Canyon. You know, the vibe is Linda Ronstadt, Neil Young, Crosby, Stills & Nash. All that. Canyon Land is a year old and we're just, you know, having a ball.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:02:55

Alright well, one time it's gonna line up when I'm coming back. So I;ll have to come see you. It's been a while since I've seen you live. So I'm excited to see you again.

Michelle Malone  1:03:02

Well, you know, we should do a live stream of the band some time for folks like you who don't live here, so. Because Canyon Land and The Hot Toddies, we don't really tour per se. So.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:03:12

If you're in Georgia, you should go check it out.

Michelle Malone  1:03:15

Yeah thanks.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:03:15

Or even like Alabama, Florida. It's worth the drive. South Carolina. (Laughs)

Michelle Malone  1:03:21

There ya go.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:03:22

Thank you so much. It has been an absolute pleasure. It's always fun to see you and we'll have you back on.

Michelle Malone  1:03:26

You're so sweet. Thank you so much.

Sharon Johnson  1:03:28

Take care.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:03:34

And now we want to shout out six special Christmas episodes from 80s television.

Sharon Johnson  1:03:40

Let's start with Remington Steele. Season Four Episode Nine entitled Dancer Prancer Donner and Steele. Special guest stars were John Del Regno and Tom Everett as well as Jennifer Tilly. It aired December 17, 1985. So in this Episode, a Christmas party at the office ends up being a hostage situation when too many Santas show up and one pulls a gun.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:04:08

It's a very funny episode and weird but very odd tone. Anyway, throwback to of course my favorite Scarecrow and Mrs. King Christmas Episode, The Long Christmas Eve, which aired December 19, 1983 is from Season One, Episode 10. Amanda has to pretend to be the long lost daughter of a double spy triple spy who's kind of trying to turn himself in. But the man in question is also being hunted by KGB agents and so they all end up trapped in a cabin in the woods on Christmas Eve drinking vodka with Russian spies.

Sharon Johnson  1:04:44

I really like the way that Amanda kind of takes charge of the situation in her best Amanda way. Yes, that's one of the things I love about it. Next, there is an Episode of A Different World a show we haven't quite gotten to yet. It's called Gift of the Magi. It's from Season One and it's Episode 10.  A Different World stars, Lisa Bonet, Marisa Tomei, Jasmine Guy and Kadeem Hardison. In this Episode, Whitley and her father have planned a Holiday in Switzerland together for Christmas break, but Whitley is surprised when her father shows up with some unexpected baggage. his new girlfriend. Well, Whitley was always kind of a daddy's girl, kind of possessive. I could see where this might be a problem for her.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:05:26

Certainly, for Christmas.

Sharon Johnson  1:05:27

Yes, an unexpected surprise, so.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:05:29

Yes. We're gonna shout out a Cagney & Lacey Episode, I'll Be Home for Christmas from Season Two, Episode Nine It air December 20, 1982. And of course, everyone in the precinct is trying to get home for the Holidays, but an escaped criminal dressed as Santa Claus complicates things, and makes it challenging for Cagney & Lacey, to get to their Christmas.

Sharon Johnson  1:05:54

Next, A Muppet Family Christmas from 1987. Of course this is not really 80s TV Ladies, but it is an all star Muppet cast, with characters from The Muppet Show, Sesame Street's Fraggle Rock and Muppet Babies, all at the height of their Muppet fame. And who doesn't like the Muppets? Christmas, Summer, whatever holiday.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:15

Well, I think it was the ultimate crossover, like it's a, early Christmas crossover episode because you didn't see Sesame Street characters in with the Muppet characters, in with the Fraggle Rock characters in the Muppet Babies. You might see that now, but in the 80s, that was tough to see.

Melissa Roth  1:06:30

And wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:31

I know Melissa objects.

Melissa Roth  1:06:33

Miss Piggy?!

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:34

I'm not saying there weren't 80s Ladies in the Muppets.

Melissa Roth  1:06:38

Ok. Just making sure. (Laughs)

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:39

But it is not an 80s Ladies television show. And again, name another female Muppet.  

Melissa Roth  1:06:46

Not too many.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:47

Not too many.

Melissa Roth  1:06:47


Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:48

But Miss Piggy did stand strong. And Miss Piggy lasted. Right? Like she really she's she's she's right up there with Kermit as an icon of that show.

Melissa Roth  1:06:58

Yes, she was in the movies. I mean, she is a movie star.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:07:01

She was a movie star. But again, I would love to see if any of you viewers can off the top of your head without googling, name another female Muppet from the 80s. (Laughs) Okay, our final show is Christmas at Pee Wee's Playhouse. Oh my goodness. Also, technically not an 80s TV Ladies show but a show from the 80s. Pee Wee's Playhouse if you don't know was an Emmy Award winning children's show that ran from 1986 to 1990, starring Paul Reubens as Pee Wee Herman. The Season Three Christmas Special which aired December 21, 1988... 34 years ago from the day we dropped this show... was filled with so many amazing 80s Ladies, we had to include it. If you've not seen Pee Wee's Playhouse, you might want to start with this most insane show ever because it's already an insane show. But in this show, Grace Jones shows up to sing Little Drummer Boy. Other guests include Oprah Winfrey, Joan Rivers, Magic Johnson, K.D. Lang, Annette Funicello, Frankie Avalon, Charo, Little Richard, Zaza Gabor, and Cher. It's bonkers. It's so funny and fun and amazing. And it also has a little section on Hanukkah. They give a little nod Hanukkah which again, very rare in the 80s to to have on Network TV.

Sharon Johnson  1:08:34

I can't think of any show in the 80s that you see that the many shows like Love Boat that would have this all star cast that would not have killed to have this cast on one of their shows. My god.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:08:47

And, and it's so it's just I don't know. It's like a chaos painting.

Melissa Roth  1:08:52

Well you gotta remember Paul Rubin's was an early gender bender.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:08:57


Melissa Roth  1:08:58

And he's, I mean, look at the lineup, just having Grace Jones singing Little Drummer Boy, I mean. K.D. Lang, you know.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:09:06

It was pretty fun to discover that, when my little, looking for cool Holiday Episodes. So we wish you a very Happy Holiday indeed. And what's the 80s Ladies driven TV show that you remember? Or want us to cover? What are your favorite 2020s TV Ladies? Tell us all. Go to our website. Tell us what we should do. 80sTVLadies.com

Sharon Johnson  1:09:28

So, we hope 80s TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch. All of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the 21st century. See you next time!

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:09:40

Bye now!

Michelle Malone  1:09:43.  

(Singing) ... well the moon is drawing near.  I am so glad, I'm so glad you're here. You make every day of the year feel like Christmas.  Doo doo da doo doo. da doo doo.....