Episode 103: “Let’s Go! Europe w/Mrs. King and 90s TV Babies”

What the heck happened in Season 2 of “Scarecrow & Mrs. King”? Oh, we have all the dish on 80s TV Ladies™. More action, more romance, more Europe – and more opportunities for Amanda to show off her skills as a legit spy – and a mom. Along the way, Susan and Sharon discuss…
Read Transcript

The Conversation

  • 80s clothes and hairdos – and Kate Jackson’s mid-season Hair-DON’T. Plus which way is Bruce Boxleitner’s hair blowing?
  • Is Archie Bunker’s Jean Stapleton a British lady, an American citizen, or a KGB agent? How could she possibly be all three?
  • Wait, I know that guy! What are Seinfeld's Michael Richards, David Paymer and the incredible John Rhys-Davies doing on this show?
  • What parts of Scarecrow and Mrs. King remind Susan of The Rockford Files?
  • How to tell the difference between Martha Smith’s Francine and the startling appearance of “Man-cine”?
  • Is Beverly Garland even old enough to be a grandmother?

Plus we have our first visit with the 90s TV Babies™ - Introducing Serita Fontenesi, Sergio Perez and Megan Ruble. These “kids” take a look at “Scarecrow & Mrs. King” through a modern lens. Did they like the show? Was it feminist? Is Lee Stetson even a good spy?  And most important: who is Richard Dick Butz?


Join us as we cruise through the highlights of Season Two including when Lee and Amanda – our favorite couple to “ship” – get married – ON A SHIP!

Our Audio-ography

Stealing the Show: How Women are Revolutionizing Television by Joy Press - 



In the Chaos with Serita Fontenesi and Cal Jack Cade - https://www.inthechaospod.com/


Scarecrow and Mrs. King Facebook Fan Page: https://www.facebook.com/scarecrowandmrs.king

Call Me a Cab website: http://www.callmeacab.com

SMK-Land - https://www.smk-land.com

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80s TV Ladies™ Episode 103 - “Let’s Go: Europe! w/ Mrs. King and 90s TV Babies”
Produced by 134 West and Susan Lambert Hatem.
Hosted by Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson.
Guests: Serita Fontenesi, Sergio Perez, Megan Ruble.
Sound Engineer and Editor: Kevin Ducey.
Producer: Melissa Roth.
Associate Producer: Sergio Perez.
Music by Amy Engelhardt.
Copyright 2022 134 West, LLC and Susan Lambert. All Rights Reserved.


Sharon Johnson  00:00

Hi 80s TV Ladies listeners. Before we get to the episode, we want to take a moment to address the June 24th Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe vs. Wade. This decision stripped away the right to have a safe and legal abortion for millions of people in this country. Restricting access to comprehensive reproductive care including abortion, threatens the health and independence of all Americans. This decision could also lead to the loss of other rights. To learn more about what you can do to help go to PodVoices.Help. That's pod voices dot help h e l p, we encourage you to speak up, take care and spread the word.

Melissa Roth  00:40

Welcome to 80s TV Ladies with your hosts, Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson. Let's get on with our show.

song  00:52  

Oh, it's fun to be a mom and it's fun to be a spy. It's fun to be a spy and a mom. It's fun to be a mom and it's fun to be a spy. It's fun to be a spy and a Mom!!

Susan Lambert Hatem  01:02

Hello, we're back! I'm Susan Lambert Hatem. Scarecrow and Mrs. King, we're going to keep going with it. I'm never letting the show go. (haha) I'm gonna keep talking about it for a few more episodes.

Sharon Johnson  01:11

And I'm Sharon Johnson. As Susan mentioned, we're going to be continuing our discussion about Scarecrow and Mrs. King. And today we're going to be focused on Season Two.

Susan Lambert Hatem  01:20

Season One was very exciting. For those that are just joining us, Scarecrow Mrs. King was a television show that starred Kate Jackson and Bruce Boxleitner. It was a action comedy and romantic comedy as well. About spies. We want to recap a little bit about Season One. Scarecrow is Lee Stetson, codenamed Scarecrow. He is a spy, an international spy. And he has to team up with Mrs. King who isn't just an American Housewife from Arlington, Virginia. And it's interesting. We're gonna come back to the word housewife because I have something to say about it. But she has two kids and she sort of stumbles into helping Scarecrow on an assignment. And then ultimately ends up pairing with him in an unlikely partnership, mostly enforced by their new boss, Billy Melrose, played by Mel Stewart. Their relationship becomes just definitely more friendly as Season One goes on. Early on, Scarecrow does not want to be partnered with Mrs. King because he thinks that she's trouble. But, but as the season progresses, he comes to admire her skills, her friendship, and she surprises almost everyone with her kindness and ingenuity. Because she brings those special housewife skills. By the way, she is divorced. So why she is constantly described as a housewife... Is that because she's married to the house?

Sharon Johnson  02:42

Very good question.

Susan Lambert Hatem  02:43

But in Season Two...

Sharon Johnson  02:44

We continue the adventures of the divorced suburban housewife and mother of two. Also, her mother lives with her as well, for reasons that I don't think are ever really explained.

Susan Lambert Hatem  02:55

To help take care of the kids, I think is you know, to basically be the housewife...

Sharon Johnson  02:59

Right?! haha

Susan Lambert Hatem  02:59

... so that Amanda can go off and be a spy, and have a job.

Sharon Johnson  03:03

Unbeknownst to her mother.

Susan Lambert Hatem  03:05

I just want to note that during this season, Amanda threatens to leave in one episode, and like several episodes later, she actually leaves. But those are kind, of kind of nicely booked in. When she threatens to leave it startles and, and upsets Lee, because they've clearly got a partnership started. Whether it's romantic, whether it's just friendship, he is startled. But he's dismissing her, because he, that's sort of the habit he's gotten into, because she's just a housewife. A`nd she's, she's messed up something but really hasn't been her fault. Which is sort of every episode. Right?

Sharon Johnson  03:43


Susan Lambert Hatem  03:43

But anyway, so I thought it was interesting when she actually leaves in like, kind of the second to last episode, for a new job. It's for money reasons. She wants to get paid more. She gets offered this great job. Of course, it turns out, she's working for criminals. And that never works out well. So she doesn't have that job. And in the end she gets to come back to the Agency with a little tiny raise. So that's great. So I thought that was interesting, because it definitely is something that is repeated in the sort of buddy comedy and romantic comedy shows. You've got to keep kind of breaking up and, and putting back together your partners.

Sharon Johnson  04:17

But I also like the reason they give for her wanting to leave that she's she's basically saying I'm worth more, I need more. I'm going to go get more. And if you guys can't do that, then I think I will go somewhere else.

Susan Lambert Hatem  04:31

I think what's nice is when she does leave the second time, it sort of is one of those things where the relationship has developed, where he really honors it. He doesn't want her to go. But he's like, actually supportive or trying to be supportive of her choices, even though he wants her to come back. They spent a lot of time in Europe in the show. So there are five episodes that are set in Europe, in London, Germany and Austria. And I believe they were shot in those locations. They were definitely shot in London and Germany. I'm pretty sure shot in Austria as well. And that is kind of a big deal. Like they basically said, Let's go Europe... and went. And it sort of really adds a lot of dimension to the show. And I think that was the special effects of the day, right? Nobody had digital effects. So you either used flipping cars, or going to exotic locales, to be your special effects.

Sharon Johnson  05:30

And one of the reasons I liked it as well, is much of the fir... In much of the First Season, Amanda kept getting involved in cases that had elements that were part of her life as a divorce housewife in Arlington, Virginia. Be it, people she knew or organization she was aware of or worked through, but this was something where she was able to you know to work, help work cases, using her skills or the skills she was developing in her role. Which I thought was great.

Susan Lambert Hatem  06:02

The first one she's like, sent accidentally. They, the Agency arranges for her family to win a trip to Europe, and then went, and they don't tell her that once she's there, Lee shows up. Scarecrow shows up and is like, "Oh Great. No, really. You're working. You're here to work for us". So her family's there in Europe with her for, for that episode, which is kind of nice. But then not for the others. Then then then she gets to go on her own, on actual real assignments. They actually get some nice guest stars this season. One of my favorites is Jean Stapleton, whom I'm a big fan of. Jean Stapleton is of course most famous for her role as Edith in, All In the Family, which ran in the 70s, pretty much all of the 70s. I think it was like 1970 to 1979. And she was married, of course to Archie Bunker and was kind of a beat up housewife and a lot of ways. Not physically but emotionally.

Sharon Johnson  06:57

Yeah, I mean, and I think for most people, Edith Bunker was what they associated with Jean Stapleton. So the idea that she would go from that to playing a, an international spy. I'm sure they were beside themselves at the time with being able to pull that off. Casting wise.

Susan Lambert Hatem  07:17

She plays Lady Emily Farnsworth, and she's first introduced in, I think the second or third episode, The Legend of Das Deiter Schloss. And I'm not sure I pronounced that right, but I gave it a good try.

Sharon Johnson  07:30

Sounds good to me.

Susan Lambert Hatem  07:30

Okay. Um and that's where Lee and Amanda must save the life of an important British agent, Emily Farnsworth, and Amanda meets Emily and what I like about it, is it sort of a little bit of Lady power going on here too. You know, she is a very respected agent. She is Lee Stetson's mentor. She trained him. He has a lot of respect for her. He clearly, you know, like, basically allows her to kind of it, to be her case. In the times, when it is her case, he kind of steps back and says what do you want to do? And she really respects Amanda. Even though Amanda is clearly the newbie. And yet, there's also a lot of fun of Lee working with his mentor again. And, it was just kind of fun! That was a really fun part. But then, of course when she comes back and one of the episodes called, Three Phases of Emily, she, this time she's on American soil. And this one was, I thought, one of my favorite episodes only because of Jean Stapleton. Because she basically plays you know, the British agent, Lady Farnsworth. Then we find out during the episode, she kind of reveals to Amanda that she's actually American, and that you know... So she's got this whole other side of her. She gets to do two accents. Then she gets to do a third accent and play an entirely different character. Basically playing a KGB you know, very high agent.

Sharon Johnson  09:01

And she was so good in this role. I don't think they had the Guest Actor Emmy that, at that point. I think it got added some years later, that category. Because if it had been there then, if she didn't win it, something was definitely wrong.

Susan Lambert Hatem  09:16

She would have been nominated. Because she really... She just chews it up, in her role as a KGB agent. She is having a ball. That episode had a lot of great little gags in it because they're using Amanda's house... Because the safe house they were gonna bring him to has no electricity. The power went out apparently. (laughing) which is kind of a funny gag. Francine sitting in the dark, with a candle, going "Don't come here!"

Sharon Johnson  09:16


Susan Lambert Hatem  09:43

And so, oh my god, the only house we can go to Amanda King's house. And thankfully once again, her mom and kids are away for the weekend.

Sharon Johnson  09:50

Well. (laughing)

Susan Lambert Hatem  09:52

Always works out that way. That's why Mom is living with her. That's one of my favorite of this season. And then I also love, Ship of Spies. But I love it for another reason, because once again, I'm a sucker for the Romance in this, in this show. And, and this is a favorite of many, many fans out there because of course, this is the one where oops, in order to track down the agent that's disappeared, they have to go on the next cruise, where that agent was. And it turns out, it's the Honeymoon Cruise where they have to get married! And Ship of Spies was the episode that was named in the Emmy Nomination for Costuming. And there's a lot of crazy costumes going on in Season Two. This was another thing that also, when we get to Remington Steele... And we will be covering Remington Steele in later episodes...  We are going to see a lot, we're going to have to talk about costuming. Because the 80s were crazy. And they were putting the Stars in pretty crazy costumes, particularly Amanda King. Because she's a housewife and then she has to dress up and go to a fancy embassy party. And then she has to get married on a Cruise Ship Island.

Sharon Johnson  11:00


Susan Lambert Hatem  11:00

Yeah. But they're also putting Lee Stetson in crazy costumes and some fancy suits. And then some crazy suits. Then some plaid suits. There's an episode in this season where he's wearing one or two ascots? Like he's wearing an ascot!

Sharon Johnson  11:19

Well, you know, spies have to do what spies have to do.

Susan Lambert Hatem  11:23

He's not even a spy at that time. They're, they're on like a weekend getaway.

Sharon Johnson  11:28


Susan Lambert Hatem  11:28

Again, there's a lot of, of that trope of pretending they're a couple, which is always fun.

Sharon Johnson  11:35

Well, speaking of the Emmy Awards, the other shows that were nominated in their category were something called, Wallenberg a Heros Story, which Won. The Execution and The Jesse Owens Story... All were nominated in that category.

Susan Lambert Hatem  11:52

In the 80s, you really start to see the Emmys really shouting out the Ladies of the 80s. I think that year was also the year that Cagney and Lacey won Best Drama Series, and three other awards. It was the top award getter. The Cosby Show was the most nominated, and the Golden Girls won Best Comedy. And the funny thing about the Golden Girls, it won Best Comedy for several years. And almost every year that it was nominated for Best Comedy, all three women from the show were also nominated in the Best Actress section. So they took up three slots of like the five available slots for Best Actress in a Comedy Series. And it was always Betty White, Bea Arthur and Ruth McClanahan. And and then I think that year Betty White won, but I think they each won one?

Sharon Johnson  12:43

That's right.

Susan Lambert Hatem  12:44

Eventually? I you know, I'm, we're gonna have to look that up. We're gonna have to look it up.

Sharon Johnson  12:46

Yay research.

Susan Lambert Hatem  12:47

What I also like about that year, is the best Outstanding Drama Special was a TV movie called, Love Is Never Silent, about a child of deaf adults, played by Mare Winningham, who was living, who basically, and it follows her It's based on a book written by a woman, based on a book written by a woman and produced by a woman. So it was written by Darlene Craviotto, and produced by Dorothy,  Dorothea Petrie, who was a multiple Emmy Award winning Producer. Okay, enough about the Emmys. We gotta go back to the show, to the, to the sea, to Season Two. So did you have any other standout episodes? Or interesting episodes for you?

Sharon Johnson  13:29

I like that there wasn't, at least not yet, a lot of emphasis on you know, the, the whole, Will she? Will they? Or won't they?, kind of thing that creeps in, in later seasons. And I, I liked the way that we see Lee's respect for Amanda progressing, as she gets involved in in more and more cases as she starts training etc.

Susan Lambert Hatem  13:58

But I think you're right. It kind of grows up this, this season a little bit. And, and I think it is probably the most solid of the seasons just all the way through. Because that relationship, it actually seems to put more emphasis on the friendship than it does the romantic element.

Sharon Johnson  14:17

Well, especially as Amanda's, I think, still trying to figure out, determine maybe, how deeply she really wants to go into this. Obviously, she still has her kids to consider. She can't be taking off to Europe or other parts unknown at a moment's notice, all the time, because of, because of her family obligations. But still, she's found that she's enjoying this world, and she's Good at it. And is really kind of still feeling her way a little bit, which I think is great.

Susan Lambert Hatem  14:44

The fun thing is, the other Guest Stars that show up in this season. So we see John Rhys-Davies, who's not really in his early career at the time. He's again, I would say, at a level of Jean Stapleton. And he is in, Affair at Bromfield Hall, which is one of the European episodes. He's playing a Lord that gets entangled with Amanda. But also in Car Wars, the episode Car Wars, one of the bad guys is played by Michael Richards. And it's really funny to see him playing a bad guy.

Sharon Johnson  15:15

Yeah. It's, as you said, that is one of the fun things about going back and watching these shows. And that was one of the times where I really went, Michael Richards!!!

Susan Lambert Hatem  15:24

Yeah, What is he doing there? He looks pretty young.

Sharon Johnson  15:28

He does (laughing). Definitely! But he was good. I mean, it's not like he, you know, he was very good at it. So. And then the following episode had a character actor that, that everybody has seen in all sorts of things, David Paymer, who was terrific as always. He was playing a, someone who works in the accounting slash finance area of the Agency trying to get people to do what they're supposed to do in terms of filling out reports and expense reports and all sorts of things like that. Of course, everybody's like, Yeah, we don't care. But it again, it was another one of those. I know who that is. I know that guy.

Susan Lambert Hatem  16:12

And then that episode was DOA. Delirious On Arrival, a little, a little spin on the DOA... There have been two movies, Dead On Arrival. But this is Delirious On Arrival because what happens right, is Amanda basically loses her mind. She eats Lee's sandwich, which was poisoned. So she is unraveling during this episode, which is, allows for a lot of physical comedy from Kate Jackson. This, this is the episode, I think the episode that was nominated for an Emmy.

Sharon Johnson  16:47

Yes, for cinematography. Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem  16:49

And so, but it it is pretty funny. She, the interesting thing is her personality sort of shifts. And she becomes very good at being a spy She becomes kind of like, "Okay, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do that." And one point she wields a hairdryer as a gun. And she's like, but she's sort of taking charge in a lot of ways, that is very different from her personality in the show where she is still nervous, and, about being a spy, and still thinks she's sort of got to hang back. And, you know, and it's played for comedy, but it was it's also like, an interesting side to watch.

Sharon Johnson  17:30

Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. That's, that's, in most shows, it's always good to see when, when actors get a chance to maybe do a slightly different take on their calendar, their character, and kind of see where they can take it.

Susan Lambert Hatem  17:44

The entire season is run by Juanita Bartlett, who bring, has brought on a lot of writers and some directors from The Rockford Files, which is where she was, was on, before she came on to the show in the middle of Season One. And so I think there's a little bit of Rockford influence in a couple of episodes. I see. And one of them is in Car Wars. It's it's not so much that it's light hearted. It is I mean, but the whole show is, but there's something that starts to be very "charactery". You get in Car Wars, Amanda's car doesn't work. It basically gets in an accident because of the Agency. The Agency has to provide her a car, and so they, the Agency car mechanic guy is kind of in there you know, kind of battling with Lee about which car she's gonna get... Or if she's gonna get a car. And then they finally end up giving her this like super fancy car that basically of course, you know, belongs to the mob. Because it was, it was used by spies.

Sharon Johnson  18:42

It was the only car they had, that had automatic. It was automatic as opposed to manual, and she can't drive a manual car, so they had to give her that car instead.

Susan Lambert Hatem  18:51

And it becomes a lot of trouble.

Sharon Johnson  18:52

Oh yes ...  

Susan Lambert Hatem  18:53

... you know of course it does. But it,  but what, there's some "charactery" things going on there that are, that feel very Rockford. You could actually, like the, the Agency Guy that runs the car impound could be right out of a Rockford... It could be Rockford arguing for a car with that guy. And, and then the other one that feels very Rockford is, Our Man in Tegernsee. One, I gotta really got to look up how pronounce these. Targnets. Tarnetsee? No? All right, Melissa? Any thoughts? All right, she's gonna check on it. Amanda has been sent on an, a simple assignment to Europe on her own. Right? No, Lee. She does the assignment very well, but apparently on her way to the airport, picking up some sevee, souvenirs for her kids, she pays with what turns out to be counterfeit money. And so she is arrested. So the episode starts with Lee having to walk away from his, you know, fancy cool weekend date and fly to Europe to pick her up and get her out of a Germany jail. Uh a German jail. And I think that's very funny. But when he arrives he's really angry at her. And on one hand, you're like, Okay, it's been awhile since Lee's been angry at her. So you're like, it's a little bit out of character. But if you think of it as a Rockford episode, and Rockford has shown up to bail out his dad, or one of his buddies, who's constantly getting to.. or Angel, who is constantly in, then you understand the whole scene. There's a character in, in that episode that sort of likes Amanda, that's the police officer for the German government. And it just, there's a lot of richness in even the background that I think is is appreciated. And I do like in in Season Two, Francine and Amanda, get a couple episodes where they get to be respectful. And in particular, there's an episode where basically at the end of the episode, Amanda saves the day. And Francine is really effervescent in her praise for Amanda. She's basically like, you did a fantastic job! You're amazing! Like, it's really, she is, she's sort of comes full circle about Amanda. And then in Season Three and Four, even though she still has her snark, because that's her character, she actually also has a friendship and a respect for Amanda.

Sharon Johnson  21:22

I think it makes all kinds of sense. So because I think she's coming from the same place initially that Lee was and that she has gone through all this training. She has all this experience, Francine. I mean, and here comes this woman who has none of that. And why is she involved? And also gotta remember the 80s was still a time when women were trying to find a place of respect for their their work in the workplace. And I kind of get it, her skepticism and her, the time it took for her to get to a place of respect for more, to develop respect for Amanda, because kind of the same thing that Lee went through. I think it sort of mirrors that.

Susan Lambert Hatem  22:05

She she does not have any experience. And suddenly she's being sent on these very big assignments. And originally, it's because no one would suspect her...

Sharon Johnson  22:13


Susan Lambert Hatem  22:14

And they need somebody who can pass as a American Housewife. And Francine can't possibly do that because she's too sophisticated. And we do need to talk about sort of the lady's hair. There's a lot of hair, big hair, Francine has got crazy 80s Ladies hair through this whole, through all the seasons. As does Amanda, but less so. She's got mostly the same hairstyle the whole time, except for in Season Two. And let me tell you, the fans of this show, like to, like to refer  to this Season as 'Hair Don't". Because they are so upset in the middle of the season. Amanda cuts her hair or maybe Kate Jackson cut her hair. It's very unusual to change hairstyles in the middle of a season for an actress. But she does and the hairstyle goes short. It goes very professional. I think it's very professional, 80s look, but man, it completely throws off the character. And I think for the fans they really hate... hate the hairstyle. I think nobody likes it. Because by the end of the season, she's basically grown back her hair and has gone back to long hair Amanda King.

Sharon Johnson  23:30

It sounds like a precursor to the whole Felicity-Haircut Gate that happened in the 90s.

Susan Lambert Hatem  23:38

Oh my god, I think you're right. It is exactly that! When she cut her hair too!

Sharon Johnson  23:42

Yes.(Laughing) How dare, How dare women cut their hair!  How Dare women change their hair!

Susan Lambert Hatem  23:47

But then there's a couple of fans that have speculated that because Kate Jackson actually got divorced from her second husband in December of 1984, in the middle of the season, that that perhaps it was really just a Kate Jackson... I need to change my life. I can only imagine that if she showed up after the Christmas break. (Laughing) Everybody went, Oh my God! What are we going to do? (hehehe)

Sharon Johnson  23:54

And as a producer, she said, "About what?!"

Susan Lambert Hatem  24:18

Yeah. And they said, never, looks great. Here's some giant earrings to go with that short haircut. Because let me tell you, the earrings get really big right then and it is not a good look. Even I cannot handle the big giant earrings with the short haircut.

Sharon Johnson  24:35

Well it's an era that quickly passed so

Susan Lambert Hatem  24:37

Big hair. Big giant earrings...``

Sharon Johnson  24:39

For at least for, for Kate Jackson in the show ...

Susan Lambert Hatem  24:41

Big shoulder pads.(hehe) Hair very important. Lee's hair...A lot of talk in the fandom world about Lee's hair. And which way Lee's hair was, you know, was combin'.

Sharon Johnson  24:53

It's interesting how fans get get up in arms about such things I guess. I don't know. um In television in ways that they don't in other mediums when people make a change like that? Maybe it's everything to do with the fact that television is in your house and these people are visiting you on a weekly basis. I don't know. But.  

Susan Lambert Hatem  25:13

It feels personal. If you've grown to love a character a certain way, it's very personal if that character changes something that is iconic about them And hair, for women in particular, is iconic. It's true. There was another speculation about the haircut that it was done to make it easier for the stunt woman to double Amanda.

Susan Lambert Hatem  25:35

Now I don't think shorter hair makes it easier for a stunt person to double somebody. So I'm not sure that I would think that would be top of my list as a reason. But it does remind me of the fact that the stunts in the show, again, Season Two pretty solid stunts happening. There's a, in particular in Ship of  Spies, this Crazy car chase and car wreck that seems physically irresponsible. Because it was all done by real actors. Stunt people jumping out of moving cars and then landing very hard. (guffaw) It doesn't seem safe. But the other thing that has been noted, and you can look for in the episode Life of the Party at the end. This is the Amanda-Francine go undercover as maids which is very fun because Amanda knows how to clean a toilet and frie, Francine is incapable of it, but has to. And Amanda ends up saving everyone, earning both Francine's approval and more Scarecrow's approval. But it's notable also for one of the in-fights for what fans like to call 'Mancine' where Francine is clearly clearly doubled by a male stunt person in some of the fight scenes. Because she gets very broad. (laughing) So if you wanted, you want to check that out, (laughing) it's apparent that that's that's definitely one of the episodes where it's pretty obvious that there's a man in a dress punching somebody out.

Sharon Johnson  25:35


Sharon Johnson  27:05

And the big hair probably helps to disguise.. somewhat! So.

Susan Lambert Hatem  27:09

I think the big hair helps. You know?

Sharon Johnson  27:10


Susan Lambert Hatem  27:11

All right, I think we're gonna have to take another little break.

Sharon Johnson  27:13

I think so.

Susan Lambert Hatem  27:14

Alright, but this is fun.

song  27:19

It's fun to be a mom and it's fun to be a spy. It's fun to be a spy and a mom!

Susan Lambert Hatem  27:22

So Sharon! We're at a point in our, we got, we have a new, a new Segment for the show, and new guests. And I'm really excited. We're gonna call it, because they came up with this themselves, 90s TV Babies. Because these are the young people who were not around in the 80s. They didn't see these shows when they first aired, unlike some people who are wise in the ways of television. So I want to invite Serita Robinson, Megan Ruble and Sergio Perez to join us. Hi, guys, welcome!

90s TV Babies  27:56

Hi. Hello. Hello!

Susan Lambert Hatem  27:59

So we have tasked them with watching the pilot of Scarecrow and Mrs. King, and one other episode. They can watch more if they wanted to. And we want to know what they think. But first I want them to before we dive in, I want the listeners to hear a little bit about you guys. Let's start with Serita.

Serita Fontanesi  28:17

Hi, I am Serita Fontanesi. Susan has known me since I was 'Robinson'. So I really love that throwback. It's much easier to spell. hahaha

Susan Lambert Hatem  28:28

I'm so sorry. I did get that wrong.

Serita Fontanesi  28:29

Oh no, I truly. I really do. That's how you know you're a real one. Do you know the maiden name. But I am currently based in Austin, Texas. I work in progressive politics and activism here in Austin. And when I am not screeching into the void, I typically can be found on my couch with my 12 year old dog watching trash TV. A lot of Reality TV. We're Real Housewives fans in this home... or at the local Lowe's. I am starting to become very familiar with the staff there. Because I'm usually in every weekend buying something for some project that I am in the midst of which my husband uber loves. And that's me!

Sharon Johnson  29:25

That's fantastic.

Susan Lambert Hatem  29:26

All right, who's next?

Megan Ruble  29:27

I can go next. Being a local celebrity at the Lowes, is a total vibe. That's just... I'm so proud of you. Is that weird to say?

Serita Fontanesi  29:36

Honestly. Thank you. Honored.

Megan Ruble  29:38

You're welcome. You're welcome. So hi. My name is Megan. I live in the wild city of North Hollywood, California. Yeah, crazy insane. I described myself when I'm trying to be succinct as like just a general creative type, who likes doing creative things and making creative things happen. um...Television wise, I super love like a lot of television shows from the 60s and 70s. I actually grew up watching a lot of those shows. And I'm also super into 90s animated shows and the recent throwback shows that have started that are throwbacks to those 90 animated shows like the reboot of Duck Tails, which is brilliant. Yeah, that's me.

Sergio Perez  30:24

Well, hi Megan.

Sharon Johnson  30:25

Hello Megan.

Sergio Perez  30:27

Welcome. I'm Sergio. I am a recent college graduate. Class of 2020. Peace... 2022. And that's wild to me that I've graduated in a Pandemic, I'd say that I'm also just the general creative type. I love to cook. I love to read and write. I'm all around that. TV wise, I would say I am on all those streaming services. We're talking HBO Max, Netflix, Hulu, even. Like, all of that! Just love seeing what's out and what everyone's talking about. It's not like me trying to be relevant or anything. It's just like, I want to see what all the buzz is about. And if it's not for me, it's not for me.

Susan Lambert Hatem  31:12

All right. Well I'm gonna, I'm gonna also just say I've known... Sergio I've known the least. Serita the most. And so And Megan. So I have guess...

Megan Ruble  31:12

... and I'm just right.

Susan Lambert Hatem  31:19

You're just right!

Megan Ruble  31:22

and this one's too warm...

Susan Lambert Hatem  31:30

You guys are all just right! I'm very excited. But I have guesses on what you're going to say. I'm not going to tell you. Because you know.  But I'm excited to hear what you ...

Sergio Perez  31:42

Can you give us like a report card at the very end? Where you like, oh, actually, you did hit this point that I thought you would.

Susan Lambert Hatem  31:48

(Laughing)Okay, yeah.

Serita Fontanesi  31:48

You could pull up a rubric. That'd be great. Yeah, I never got off the ...

Susan Lambert Hatem  31:51

Here are all my notes. All right, so they're gonna tell us what they think of Scarecrow and Mrs. King based on the Pilot Episode. And what was the episode I gave you?

90s TV Babies  32:02

13. Never Have I Ever. The Amnesia. Yes. A classic ...

Sergio Perez  32:08

I love an amnesia...

Susan Lambert Hatem  32:09

You can't go wrong with an amnesia episode.

Serita Fontanesi  32:12

I especially love an amnesia episode where they remind you every five minutes.

Sharon Johnson  32:16


Susan Lambert Hatem  32:19

Welcome to the 80s.

Serita Fontanesi  32:20

Oh, honestly, I'm not convinced you keep bringing it up.

Sergio Perez  32:24

I wasn't convinced that she got amnesia from that car wreck. It didn't seem that tragic.

Serita Fontanesi  32:29

(Laughing) like I'm not a doctor.

Susan Lambert Hatem  32:32

I'm out. You guys are gonna go.

Megan Ruble  32:33

I'm gonna start off by saying just like I really loved it. Like I watched two of the required episodes. I'm going to go watch more because I liked it. And I want more of it. So that's my like, first overarching general thought is, Sold! Going to go back for more.

Serita Fontanesi  32:50

It was, It felt very like classic, like 80s television. We've got a formula. We've got our lead. We've got like love interest immediately off the bat. You know who he is. And like it was giving me a little like mellow Murphy Brown kind of vibes?! (hahahahaha)

Sharon Johnson  33:14

Oh interesting!

Serita Fontanesi  33:16

Like you know, if like Murphy got like a Xanax from time to time, she could be Mrs. King. Maybe I'm just conflating single white women... I don't know. (giggles)

Sergio Perez  33:29

She's not single. She's got Dean.

90s TV Babies  33:33

Dean. Dean. Oh, Dean.

Serita Fontanesi  33:35

Likes that's the thing, like, again, Classic formula. We've got like a technically single gal who's like romantically involved. It only goes one of two ways. Either she's terrible at love, can't keep a man, or she is like, kind of unhappy in a relationship. And like, here comes this like outside person to shake things up. But it really... Ladies, you got two options.

Megan Ruble  34:02

I think it is kind of cool though. Because like especially just looking at the pilot like zoning and on the pilot. You have this woman who is so much more than her circumstances. Like Dean doesn't seem to be a bad guy. He's just kind of like the quote from My Big Fat Greek Wedding. He's toast. (laughing)

Serita Fontanesi  34:24

Yeah. I'm not anti Dean. But also I'm like who? Yeah.

Megan Ruble  34:30

And like she seems like she's a cool mom, but like it, there's more to her than her circumstances. And so her being dropped into this like wild spy world, um, is is an exciting concept. Because you're like, Yeah, this woman is going to step up. This woman is absolutely going to thrive in this circumstance because she needs more. She is more so she needs more.

Sergio Perez  34:54

And What's-His-Name... Scarecrow was absolutely terrible at his job. He's the worst spy. I watching it with Megan, we're just watching and every time he'd do something we're like, you know, as a spy, he probably shouldn't just be running around a train station like that.

Serita Fontanesi  35:14

Okay. Here's the most unbelievable part of the show, or maybe the thing that dates it. Obviously, this is a show that did not have true crime podcasts left and right everywhere. There's no Law and Order SVU yet. So a strange man walking up to me at a train station being like, take this package and get on a train and give it... Absolutely not. Get away from me. I have 12 keys between every finger These nails are so that I can collect DNA should anything go wrong. Like no.

Megan Ruble  35:46

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Also like the fact that he just gets out of everything because he's handsome. Like he's he's that's fine. So, Sergio and I narrowed it down to, he's like Nathan Fillion and Michael (?) had a child.

Serita Fontanesi  36:01

I like, he felt kind of like a Get Smart also.

90s TV Babies  36:05

Yeah, yes. Yeah.

Serita Fontanesi  36:07

Just kind of like this quirky, kind of awkward, but somehow it always works, guy that is a spy. And technically he gets his job done. I just wouldn't say that he does it well. You know, if we're doing like a performance review, I might have some room for improvement.

Sergio Perez  36:23

He's on the chopping block, actually.

Serita Fontanesi  36:26

Ya know?!

Sergio Perez  36:27

He is. He, he underperforms very consistently in every episode we watched him in. Or well, we only watched two episodes with a minute. He's in all of them. But.

Megan Ruble  36:39

It was the same formula. He screws something up, she saves his butt!

Serita Fontanesi  36:47

There's tension. And then it's all fine.

Sergio Perez  36:50

That helicopter moment. First of all, that was thrilling. I really enjoyed that. Watching them in the helicopter just spinning around somewhere up in Santa Clarita. We're supposed to be like Virginia. Like, that was fantastic! I was like, these days, that would be CGI. That would all be like a green screen, whatever. But hmmm, practical.

Serita Fontanesi  37:15

Yeah, like I feel like, with like when they remade Hawaii Five O with like modern CGI and stuff, you lose a little bit of the real fear. Because, because there weren't special effects. Like I suddenly, they were up in a helicopter. Like doing, like, you know, making making it work. Making TV magic. And so there is an, a real element of like, oh, this is... this could go left. This is a little shaky... a little dicey.

Megan Ruble  37:37

It's also just a visual gag of the helicopter backin up. And then the helicopter going for like, Oh, yes, yes. Give me that visual gag... perfect!

Sergio Perez  37:56

Being followed by who is essentially a Rachael Ray in a station wagon.

Serita Fontanesi  38:01

Not a Rachael Ray...

Sergio Perez  38:03

Carrying a gun.

Serita Fontanesi  38:04

Okay, watching this, there is one story from... whatever. There's one thing that I cannot get out of my brain. And it's from similar era. Well, I guess we'd be a little bit before. Anyways, my husband's grandfather, very Italian Fontanesi. He's a retired oral surgeon. So like, you know, they lived well. The Fontanesi's had two sons. And when, after he married his wife, my husband's grandmother, she, you know, obviously he's taking over the responsibilities of the home and whatever. Being a homemaker, and decides that she wants to get better at cooking. Like she's like an okay cook. Like she's not bad. But like, you know, similar to what we see in the show of like, like, I gota watch my cooking program, whatever. Except these people... Michael's grandfather paid for his grandmother to study at the` Cordon Bleu...

Sergio Perez  38:58


Serita Fontanesi  38:59

So that she could make food for their two sons to take to school every day. Like there's, and like I could not get that out of my head watching this show. Because like the disrespect of women, always consistently, I'm gonna go basically become a professional chef, so that I can make (bleeped) 10 lunchboxes to send my children with, that they're only going to eat half of and forget on the counter half the time. Because kids are disrespectful first and foremost. Like, laughoing, so we've got this Rachael Ray wanna be...

Sergio Perez  39:35


Megan Ruble  39:37

Can we talk about her as a villain though ? Cuz I was very into it.

Sergio Perez  39:40

Yeah that code system they had? You're gonna call Paul Revere's peaches. And what do you have? Do you know who the leaker is? No, great. One hour.... What is that? Who in the writer's room was like, ' The idea is... every part of a recipe is information relevant to what these foreign countries are trying to do to us.

Serita Fontanesi  40:11

Brilliant. (Laughing)

Megan Ruble  40:12

I want to see just like a clip show of like people trying these recipes at home, and then going horribly wrong. (guffaw) It can't work. Just like all of these like terrible recipes that are just code.

Serita Fontanesi  40:28

Can you picture Ina Garten?

90s TV Babies  40:36


Megan Ruble  40:36

That's who it is!  Ina Garten...

Serita Fontanesi  40:36

Who like is a retired like stocks, stockbroker or something. Like she, she liked had a massive career in like finance, and then was just like, well, I've made a bunch of money and I'm pretty over this. And my passion has always been cooking. So her and Jeffrey they got their little house and that's how she became the Barefoot Contessa!

Sergio Perez  40:57

The Barefoot Contessa!

Serita Fontanesi  40:59

There's obviously some more details in the middle, but that's her backstory.

Sergio Perez  41:03

That's about what we need. That's all we need to know about.

Serita Fontanesi  41:07

Also like that backstory on the lady in the show.

Megan Ruble  41:10

So in the inevitable reboot of Scarecrow and Mrs. King, because that's all we can do now.

90s TV Babies  41:15


Megan Ruble  41:21

Playing the KGB villain in the first episode. But that was the other thing that came up as we were watching it is, you can date frequently shows by what country the villains are from. And like the KGB Russian in the Pilot Episode being so, on the nose of like, Oh, yes, this is where we are in time.

90s TV Babies  41:41

I'm scared.  Hahahah Yeah.

Serita Fontanesi  41:41

I mean, do we ever get tired of being mad at Russia for something?

Serita Fontanesi  41:44

Truly! Throwback! (laughing) Vintage! This is such a vintage villain.

90s TV Babies  41:47


90s TV Babies  41:47


Sergio Perez  42:03

Men in trench coats following you around in a Cadillac. What is that?

Serita Fontanesi  42:08

Which like, what a flex for your villain car to be a Cadillac! That gets like two miles to the gallon. Like, are you just at the gas station all day? Like my grandmother drove a Lincoln Town Car, which when I was like little was already 16 years old. So like, it was powder blue with velvet blue interior, and like barely seatbelts. And like me and my sisters would just kind of roll around in the backseat because it's basically a playroom. She drove us around town running errands. The city of Houston, just this little Lincoln with the silver like spoilers and everything. A look, a look!

Susan Lambert Hatem  42:27

I need that show right now! With your grandmother solving crimes.

Serita Fontanesi  43:03

I mean, she kind of was! Because she was a retired like research physician, and in her retirement did business taxes for different businesses. So she would buckle us into the... Buckle I say barely. We roll around the back seat, and she would drive around to her different businesses to pick up their receipts and stuff. And her biggest client was a seafood market. So that's where we would end because then they would make us fresh food. And honestly, it was a great day. Like I was like, Oh yeah, let's go get them receipts. I'm ready. (laughing)

Megan Ruble  43:40

I'm so jealous.

Serita Fontanesi  43:42

I have been middle aged for a long time you guys. I would put on my loafers, get into the Lincoln Towncar and pick up the receipts.

Sergio Perez  43:53

Go to the seafood market. Oh my God.

Susan Lambert Hatem  43:58

Oh my God. All right. Now I have to ask you, okay, a couple of questions. Is this show, Feminist? Scarecrow and Mrs King?

Megan Ruble  44:07

I... If I can go first,  I think so. And my primary arguments for that would be, you have a cast of women. At least I'm going to exclusively look at the pilot for this, right? You have a cast of women that are all very different and have made different choices with their life and fall different morally. And like one of the things I think that we get wrong sometimes with feminist art today, is that it's like oh, we have to all be the now trademark 'strong woman'. And it's like cool, that's great. Love her. But that's not all of us. And it doesn't need to be. And so seeing a diversity of women. Seeing different, well not incredible diversity of age. Her mom, I'm like, that's not a grandmother. (laughing) Like that woman is 40! Very hot.

Megan Ruble  45:08

Anyway, super hot grandma.(laughing) I'm gonna do it, but anyways. Like you have a, you have an age range, you have women who have made different choices with their life and all of them... None of them, to me, feel two dimensional. There's some of them that feel like they have a tropey-ness to them, but I'm gonna forgive that for the time period. Also all of the men in her life, because she doesn't have a dad figure. Because she's divorced. And because she's only dating Dean, (will only be said that way by me) all of the men in her life, are only... She chooses for them to be there. Scarecrow gets kind of forced on her for a second but then she chooses that relationship after. And I think that's really cool too. She can break up with her boyfriend. She can walk away from this job. She can walk away from him. And there's no influence that is like directly forced on her. So I'd say, I'd say it is with some like caveats given for time period.

90s TV Babies  45:08


Serita Fontanesi  46:17

I actually, I will use the other episode that we watched. I mean, is it like intersectional? No.

Sergio Perez  46:26

No by far...

Megan Ruble  46:29

Okay, just more white ladies doing white lady things.

Serita Fontanesi  46:33

Only white lady feminism. (laughing) Like, you know, always have to add that asterisk, which if we review A Different World, I'm there. I'm ready. I already have watched it four times, already.

Susan Lambert Hatem  46:48

It's on the list.  We're doing it.

Serita Fontanesi  46:48

Okay, great. Whitley! I've got a dissertation. Anyway. Um, but I do think that this is like solid for its time feminists representation. And the reason why I will use the other episode that we watched is because like, you know, the whole like, issue within her personal life is that she missed this lunch with Dean's family. And they have nothing but like snotty comments of like, Oh, is she often disorganized? Or late? Or you know, Dean naturally knows to be a good person like.. vululu! (laughing ) But like, she missed it because she's being this badass spy, and like espionage! And like, to your point earlier Megan of like, he's always messing up! Scarecrow is a problem. Like it's a little bit of like Archer, but like Archer, at least, like can do his job. He just is a mess also.

Megan Ruble  47:15

A lot.

Serita Fontanesi  47:21

But Archer technically can do things and be of value from time to time. Like Scarecrow is just a hot mess. Always. Like, oh, I was getting intelligence, but then the massage just kept going. And I fell asleep. It's like, it's like, you have a job in your world. Russia is about to like, send a bomb, takeover at any moment. And you fell asleep during a massage?! Only a man. And she is often given credit, like, much to his annoyance of like, well, if it weren't for her, like you would have had this problem...  or that problem or whatever. And so I do appreciate how much they validate and honor the work that she's doing. And then also like his assistant, and like, I mean, the mom can be problematic. But like, she also still will like, stick up for her daughter! And we like know, like she's cool. She's a good person! You and Dean can pipe down. That's nice. That's appreciated.

Megan Ruble  47:50

Can he? Can he though?

Serita Fontanesi  48:44

He technically does. You know? Lana does have to help out a lot.

Sergio Perez  49:03

Yeah, I mean, like, in the two episodes that we watched, she literally piloted the aircraft because Scarecrow was too... Yeah, twice. Twice! She, she piloted the helicopter, she piloted the nerve gas airplane that was going to release just everything over the community. The other thing, they got the nerve gas from a labratorio! If I had forgotten that you were a vaguely Latin American, like revolutionary, I just remembered. Thank you. (guffaw) Every time the posters and everything were very in your face about it. But that being said, I think that I mean, like I know that you've brought us in for like, what is it? Like how does it stack up today? And I think that the saturation of media today is very sanitized in a way where it's like, we're trying to be to woke to the point where it's contrived and things don't feel real anymore. And so when you watch, like, I really enjoyed Scarecrow and Mrs. King, the Pilot, I was like, this is fun. This is fantastic. Like, I, I think it's, I think, I mean, yeah, I answered your question. It felt pretty solid. Like, I don't know, you show me something today, it's just, I'm probably going to be bored with it, because of how, like, look at how she can beat this guy up. But that's all she does. And it's just, it's annoying.

Serita Fontanesi  50:34

Will she ever find love fighting all of these men? hehehe

Sergio Perez  50:39

She can balance both, but she's not going to be good at it. Like, why?

Susan Lambert Hatem  50:44

So. So, I'm gonna (laughing) like I just, earlier today, I was doing my research and I'm always looking for, at like texts, right? And I found somebody's Dissertation from 1998 where they are looking at the feminism in Scarecrow and Mrs. King, and Lois and Clark. And it's fascinating because the basically, like their premise, when they started, was that Lois and Clark was going to be further along. And by the time they finish watching both they're like, No! It turns out, it's not. She basically goes from independent woman to Superman is gonna save me. Whereas Amanda and Scarecrow and Mrs. King goes from, I'm, I'm kind of on my own trying to run my, my household. And, but then I become an international spy and I'm basically saving them. I do want to, I do want to know what you guys thought of the hair and costumes. And in particular, what we... The headband? I don't know if you got, if you had the headband?

Serita Fontanesi  51:43

Yes, yes. Okay, here's the thing. I love, I love a (Luke?), I want like, I mean obviously this show was in its, was not a period piece when it was made. But (giggling) even still, there are some shows from the 80s that like, are too far into like late 80, early like mid to late 80s where it's just like, Oh, this is rough. Like this was like a nice fun middle. Like, I think and also kind of going back to like, is this... Is she a feminist? Or is she a good representation for feminism? Like she feels like a real person. Like you know, we don't have a lot of bright big shoulders, big buttons, like super like what we would consider iconic 80s, like looks. But it is still, like I looked at it and immediately was like, well this uh, what's  a... Wonder Years, like you know, like... You immediately know that you're in a different time just from like the opening still. Like from her hair and kind of like the the colors and textures. I have an undergraduate degree in costume design. So sometimes I get really stuck on these things. But you, it felt more of like, this is what the regular person was wearing and doing and living. And and again, even when you have sort of like slice of life TV from different time periods, like wardrobe and set can go so far in like, "you need to know that this is a suburban family and Mama... Like that it just, no real person owns any of these things and definitely not together. But like for her, I was like okay, yeah, no, no. This tracks. This feels good. This feels right.

Megan Ruble    51:53

So can we just have a moment for everything Francine was wearing? With the exception like screamed every time she came on. Because I was like, oh, I want that. Oh, you look amazing. And then in the, and then in the 13th Episode that amnesia episode. Did you know she had amnesia and that episode? She came on in like that pink thing that had the studs! And then the... Oh no. And I was like, Oh No! What happened?

Serita Fontanesi  53:38

That was the moment that the show went too 80s.

Sergio Perez  53:38

It was agregious...

Serita Fontanesi  53:44

... and... pull it back a little. Pull it back a little! Like the like wardrobe stylist was like I just want to try something with Francine. I feel like she could pull it off. And the actress is probably like, I don't really know, but I don't want to be a jerk about it. So fine. Like I'll put it on. And like now it's a running joke on set. Hehehe

Megan Ruble  54:28

Yeah. Like what a mistake. But maybe not. Maybe that was a cool thing then and I just am looking at it through my eyes and going... No thank you. But everything else she's wearing.

Serita Fontanesi  54:41

Chef's kiss.

Megan Ruble  54:42

Yeah, perfect. Perfection! Hey, hey, Sergio

Sergio Perez  54:46

Oh, you want to have a piece of informatioin?

Megan Ruble  54:50

Yeah, you have some pointed information to this topic. He was an eagle eye... Dresser was...

Sergio Perez  54:57

So. Oh gee. He's okay. So the men's costumer on Scarecrow and Mrs. King is named Richard, Dick, Butz.

Serita Fontanesi  55:09


Sergio Perez  55:13

Yeah, I know. Richard Dick Butz.

Megan Ruble  55:17

We laughed for 20 minutes.

Sergio Perez  55:19

We did. We read his obituary out loud to each other.

Megan Ruble  55:22

That was kind of sad.

Sergio Perez  55:22

It was kind of sad, but... Butt

Serita Fontanesi  55:25

Wait. This is a real person? (laughing)

Susan Lambert Hatem  55:28

I have watched. I've watched this show, particularly Season One. I don't know how many times, I've been studying. I've been, I've been looking up cast members. (hehehe) I have never noticed that.

Serita Fontanesi  55:44

That is... I love that you took a screen shot!

Sergio Perez  55:49

He took a screenshot. Sergio is holding up a screenshot (guffaw) for those at home, just listening.

Sharon Johnson  55:55


90s TV Babies  55:55

Dick Butz!

Susan Lambert Hatem  55:55

Dick Butz. Oh, it's B u t z. Okay, well, at least it's B U T Z. Right?

Sergio Perez  56:00


Serita Fontanesi  56:01

That person must have had a miserable childhood.

Susan Lambert Hatem  56:04

I mean, as Norbert Leo Butz, one of my favorite Broadway performers says, 'If your name is Norbert Leo Butz, your only job is to Not suck.' Do a good job. Don't suck. Ha!

Sergio Perez  56:19

He has a resume though, Dick Butz, he really does. I looked him up. He also worked on the Weekend at Bernie's. Like he was he was booked and booked. (laughing)

Serita Fontanesi  56:28

So that point, if your name's Dick Butz, you better be pretty good!

Susan Lambert Hatem  56:32

I'm glad you really...  really glad you pointed that out.

Sergio Perez  56:34

I'm glad we brought Dick Butz to your attention.

Susan Lambert Hatem  56:37

That is fantastic. You guys did an amazing job! I'm only concerned, (laughing) that you liked the show. And I'm glad you did. So glad. This show is on the list almost every year of like, it's got to be rebooted. It's got to be rebooted. And so many 80s shows have been rebooted that, that... It is one of those ones you're like, Okay.  Come on. Somebody's got to figure it out. Shouldn't be that hard. I mean, it was rebooted once as Chuck. But beyond that, you know ...

90s TV Babies  56:37


Megan Ruble  57:09

I got like five minutes to, in to it and it was like, Oh. It's Chuck!

Susan Lambert Hatem  57:12

It's the, it's the role reversal Chuck. Yeah.

Megan Ruble  57:14

Yeah! But, she, her... I mean, I guess that happens in Chuck too, where like her being just a normal person ends up being the like information often that is needed. Just normal information is what's needed. And that, I guess that happens every once in a while in Chuck, too. He also has like all the secrets of the world in his head.

Sharon Johnson  57:37

I watched Chuck as well. And that was so much fun, but I don't remember them using his normality in the same way.

Serita Fontanesi  57:44

I honestly would be curious to see some of the later Seasons because I don't know that it would be a fun show, with her being like an actual spy. Like part of the fun is that like he's supposed to be this trained professional secret agent and keeps messing up. And she is this not-housewife who is able to just kind of swoop in and use like common sense. Like, it's just like, What do you... How are you not getting this? And that's part of the like fun and charm is like, Oh, he's sort of like too into this work slash kind of too dense to get it. And she is able to be like, use your brain. (guffaw) Like, obviously, there wasn't Google then. So she couldn't be like, have you Googled this? But that's kind of the sentiment of like, Have you ever spoken to a human?

Sergio Perez  57:57

...Gone to the library and pulled out an encyclopedia?

Serita Fontanesi  58:44

Right! Like have you, have you talked to another person?

Megan Ruble  58:50

I think I also really appreciate too. And I wonder if this changes in... I'd be curious if this changes in later seasons. I really appreciate that she's very adept at what she's doing. But is frazzled. Like is babbling incessantly and is kind of freaking out about it. But like it's freaking out about flying the helicopter, but it's still very (giggling) well flying the helicopter. Because I can relate. And I get that. And I'm like, thank you. (laughing)

Serita Fontanesi  59:17

That's such a mom move too, mom's like, if you have a good relationship with your mom. Like moms are superheroes. Like you don't know how. You don't know when. You don't know, whatever. You just know that if there's a problem and you take it to your mom, it's gonna be fixed. And so like, sure, does she know how to fly a helicopter? No, but like, if you put her in the chair, she'll figure it out. Like she can do it!  (Laughing)

Sergio Perez  59:44

What I love is that her application of the Boy Scout knowledge was looking at the knot that tied Scarecrow up, going, 'I know what that knot is... and then not untying him?! Like her circumstances! Ya know? It's just like, oh, this is...This is peak comedy.

Serita Fontanesi  1:00:03

That part of the brain doesn't make sense. Okay?!

Sergio Perez  1:00:10

It's impossible to untie... Anyway. Sorry.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:00:16

I guess I'm gonna have to fly the helicopter.

Serita Fontanesi  1:00:19

Okay. Like she knew how to untie it the whole time. She just wanted to try flying on a helicopter.

Sharon Johnson  1:00:24

There you go. (laughing)

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:00:26

Oh my god. All right. I am so excited that you guys have come on the show.That we have 90s TV Babies to talk about 80s TV Ladies. It's super exciting! I'm excited you guys watch it together. And we're able to do that. Because that is fun. But like, sitting down with my sister watching 80s television was very much something that I missed when she went off to college. Which actually enabled our, our friendship beyond sistership. She went off to college and we started writing letters to each other to talk about television shows. And the new shows that were happening. Because she had to go to the common room and make, and try to get people to turn the television to certain shows, right? You had one TV in the dorm, in the Dorm... The whole building! And and you had to negotiate what it was going to be turned to. And so I was like, Oh my God, you've got to watch this new show the A-Team. And I'm writing her a letter, telling her how great the A-Team is. So that she will go down and fight to watch it on the common television. (laughing)

Serita Fontanesi  1:01:38

Those were the days! Yeah, it's yeah, I didn't have a television the first year... Access to tech, TV with my first year in college, except for the one in the common room. So I was at the mercy of whatever anybody else wanted to watch. So yeah, I completely, completely relate to that. But you guys are amazing. You guys really are amazing! So appreciate you. And and the things that you brought up that never occurred to me, that that I didn't see in quite the right way, but I... not the right way...  the same way. But I love your takes on everything. I can't wait to see what you think about additional shows as we go forward. So looking forward to that. Thank you so much!

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:02:22

Thank you so much. But we will be having you back to talk about the next show that we're going to look at. And I don't know if we, are we, are we allowed to talk about it now?

Serita Fontanesi  1:02:29

Oh, sure!

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:02:29

Sure. Okay, so after we finish our Scarecrow episodes, our next show... We're going to continue in the action romantic comedy and we will be doing Remington Steele. And so we will be sending you some episodes of Remington to check out. It's gonna be super fun. I did do some math while you guys were talking. Beverly Garland was old enough to be Kate Jackson's mother. And so a grandmother. She was 57 at the time of the show, but she was a pretty... For the 80s?

Sergio Perez  1:03:02

She was snapping!

Megan Ruble  1:03:03

May I just end this with the blessing of,  'May we all age like she did. Every single one of us here, may we continue to be that sexy.'

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:03:14

I think that's a beautiful way to wrap this up. And I'm also gonna wrap it up. She was so sexy. Her husband built her a hotel. The Beverly Garland Hotel still exists. It is in the Valley.

Sharon Johnson  1:03:25

It's on, it's on Vineland, just north of Ventura Boulevard.

Serita Fontanesi  1:03:29

That is baller! I know that Hotel! Yeah, yeah, I've definitely driven by there.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:03:34

I know that hotel. I knew Beverly Garland was an actress. I literally never put it together that the Beverly Garland Hotel was named after the actress Beverly Garland. (Laughing)

Sharon Johnson  1:03:44

I think it's now just called The Garland. But for years it was literally called the Beverly Garland Hotel. So.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:03:51

All right, thank you guys so much. Thank you. So great to have you. We're, can't wait to have you back. And and you know, Blessings!

Sharon Johnson  1:03:59

Bye guys!

90s TV Babies  1:04:00


Susan Lambert Hatem  1:04:01

So now it's time for our Audio-ography. The websites I'm going to shout out today for you to look up for more information is the Facebook Fan Page. Which is facebook.com/scarecrowandmrs.king. It has a ton of information, a lot of cool like kind of facts and and photos. And the website, Fan Website, Call Me a Cab at callmeacab.com. Pretty amazing deep dive. They have scripts on that site. Very cool website for Scarecrow and Mrs King. And then the SMK-Land, Scarecrow and Mrs King Land. That's S M K dash Land. And that's the little sign dash.com That site does require registration for some info but it also has pretty cool like a lot of information about the vocations they used. The book I'm gonna shout out today is called Stealing the Show: How Women Are Revolutionizing Television. This is a fun read about Women Creators and Showrunners. And it looks to Showrunners from the 1980s to 2018. I want to give a shout out to our audio engineer Kevin Ducey. Co-Producer Melissa Roth. Plus a shout out to our Social Media Manager and Production Assistant, Megan McKiernan, who is also, was also my assistant at 134 West. She has moved on. And I want to congratulate her on her amazing new gig. She is now a Production Assistant for the HBO Max/Warner Brothers and DC TV show Titans. And we wish her well over there and I'm really excited that she helped us out with the first few episodes. And I also want to welcome my new Assistant at 134 West and our Social Media manager for 80s TV Ladies, Sergio Perez. Yes, he was also part of our 90s TV Babies! So it's, it's coming full circle. And I want to also shout out the, Serita's podcast is called, In the Chaos.

Melissa Roth  1:06:00

Join us for the next episode of 80s TV Ladies, where we will continue our dive into Scarecrow and Mrs. King. We are excited to have a very special guest, who not only worked on the show, she co-created it.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:14

That's right, Melissa, we will be interviewing Eugenie Ross-Leming, the Writer, Producer and Actress, and Co-Creator of Scarecrow and Mrs. King. I can't wait. You guys send us your questions and we'll see if we can get them answered.

Sharon Johnson  1:06:26

Thank you so much for listening.

Susan Lambert Hatem  1:06:28

And until next time, we want you to stay sexy and pretty. All right?!


80s TV Ladies.  I’m so sexy and so pretty.

80s TV Ladies. I’m steppin’ out into the city.

80s TV Ladies.  I been treated kind of sh#*ty.  

Working hard for the money in a man’s world.

80s TV Ladies!